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FeliciaKnight

Race for 2012

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OK, I have to say one thing: Stop blaming Obama that the economy isn't better. It doesn't take one term to rebuild the economy back from how Bush left it. And how is Obama ruining the economy? (Ahem, Newt Gingrich, who left his dying wife for his mistress). And Rick Perry, (the governor of Texas, the state I live in) vetoed the No Texting while Driving bill because he said that it tells adults what to do. And Bill White wanted to have a debate with Perry, but he said no.

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Originally Posted by FeliciaKnight View Post

OK, I have to say one thing: Stop blaming Obama that the economy isn't better. It doesn't take one term to rebuild the economy back from how Bush left it. And how is Obama ruining the economy? (Ahem, Newt Gingrich, who left his dying wife for his mistress). And Rick Perry, (the governor of Texas, the state I live in) vetoed the No Texting while Driving bill because he said that it tells adults what to do. And Bill White wanted to have a debate with Perry, but he said no.


First of all, Bush is not the only reason the economy is lagging, the problems started in the Clinton administration, continued with Bush and continued with Obama. Obama is not necessarily "ruining the economy" but his stimulus didn't exactly help it, it just put us further into debt. Not to mention by passing Obamacare he has made employers more wary to hire people just because they don't know what healthcare costs are going to be. Also, if Obama cared about fixing the economy and bringing down the deficit, there are things he could do. Bush is not president anymore, so it's up to him to make the necessary spending cuts. Many people have put forth solutions for decreasing the deficit, including his bipartisan committee and he has yet to listen to any of the people that put forth solutions for spending cuts. Once the deficit starts falling, more than likely consumer and corporation confidence will rise. I have other grievances with Obama besides the economy, but I don't plan on voting for him.

 

Also, the argument regarding Newt Gingrich is completely irrelevant. I think him leaving his dying wife for his mistress is absolutely disgusting and I'd never vote for him, but what does that have to do with fixing the economy or your assertions that Obama is not ruining it? Democratic candidates have engaged in similar indecent activities (John Edwards, anyone?).

 

In regard to Rick Perry, I don't support his vetoing of the No Texting while Driving Bill (I'm a Texas resident as well), but he has the right to use his veto power if he feels that way. Obama used his veto power to block a bill brought forth in regard to the payment for soldiers during the whole "government shutdown" debacle and honestly, though I don't like what he did (my husband is a soldier), I understand it's his right as president. Also, Perry is trying to be ideologically consistent by vetoing this bill because he claims to oppose "nanny-state" regulations such as the banning of the incandescent bulbs. He doesn't believe he has to babysit adults, that's not his job as governor. The question he asks is if we pass laws like that, where do we draw the line? I can appreciate his point of view. He cares about being ideologically consistent which is more than I can say about many politicians these days.

 

I don't like Newt Gingrich, I don't like Obama either, for that matter, I really haven't found anyone I'm especially impressed with. What I do know though, is that I want our president's allegiance to be to the citizens of the United States as a whole, not to the United Nations, not to unions or corporations and not to his cronies. I think he should look out for our best interests and the interests of the generations to come.

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Originally Posted by janetgriselle View Post
...What I do know though, is that I want our president's allegiance to be to the citizens of the United States as a whole, not to the United Nations, not to unions or corporations and not to his cronies. I think he should look out for our best interests and the interests of the generations to come.


This!

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Exactly. People should stop blaming Obama for all this. It's not his fault he got elected to be President at the worst time ever when the economy was failing really miserably. Bush left it in that state. he was just trying to fix the economy, so people should stop blaming Obama when he did not cause all this to happen in the first place.

The other day I saw a car with 2 bumper sticker. One said:

 

One

Big

A (picture of a donkey)

Mistake,

America

 

The other said this:

 

Osama Bin Laden:         Navy SEALs:

           0                               1

 

I don't get it. He hates Obama and yet he supports the navy SEALs when Obama sent the navy SEALs!

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Originally Posted by 13Bluestar97 View Post

 

Exactly. People should stop blaming Obama for all this. It's not his fault he got elected to be President at the worst time ever when the economy was failing really miserably. Bush left it in that state. he was just trying to fix the economy, so people should stop blaming Obama when he did not cause all this to happen in the first place.

The other day I saw a car with 2 bumper stickers. One said:

 

One

Big

A (picture of a donkey)

Mistake,

America

 

The other said this:

 

Osama Bin Laden:         Navy SEALs:

           0                               1

 

I don't get it. He hates Obama and yet he supports the navy SEALs when Obama sent the navy SEALs!

 

First off, Obama didn't kill Osama Bin Laden, sure he gave the order, but giving an order and actually killing Osama Bin Laden are two very different things. There was no life-risking on Obama's part. The SEALs did all the work. Also, since when did loving the president become a pre-requisite to supporting our troops?

 

Second of all, plenty of presidents have been elected during bad economies. FDR was elected during the Great Depression and he didn't spend time blaming Hoover for the economy, he just tried to fix it. I don't love FDR's decisions, but I've just never heard a president whine so much about the state of the country, the debt ceiling...everything. Obama also is not completely immune. His stimulus put us further into debt and Obamacare is stunting job growth because employers are uncertain about the future and the costs of healthcare that are to come. He also joined the war in Libya and you better believe those bombs cost money, at least millions of dollars. There's also his secret war in Yemen, the extravagant trips, the takeover of GM, the tax credits for buying the stupid Chevy Volt...ugh the list goes on and on...and on of the spending spree that he's gone on. So don't act like Obama is completely immune from all of this. He's been the president for three years. I'm just waiting for eight years to go by (if he gets elected again) and for him to end saying "It was all Bush's fault."

 

Both parties are corrupt. John Boehner is just as bad as Barack Obama, but the difference between Boehner and Obama is that Obama is president and Obama is continuing this massive spending spree. You could say it's not his fault if from the moment he came into office he said "let's fix this deficit" and put off his Obamacare agenda.

 

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Originally Posted by janetgriselle View Post

 

 

 

 

First off, Obama didn't kill Osama Bin Laden, sure he gave the order, but giving an order and actually killing Osama Bin Laden are two very different things. There was no life-risking on Obama's part. The SEALs did all the work. Also, since when did loving the president become a pre-requisite to supporting our troops?

 

Second of all, plenty of presidents have been elected during bad economies. FDR was elected during the Great Depression and he didn't spend time blaming Hoover for the economy, he just tried to fix it. I don't love FDR's decisions, but I've just never heard a president whine so much about the state of the country, the debt ceiling...everything. Obama also is not completely immune. His stimulus put us further into debt and Obamacare is stunting job growth because employers are uncertain about the future and the costs of healthcare that are to come. He also joined the war in Libya and you better believe those bombs cost money, at least millions of dollars. There's also his secret war in Yemen, the extravagant trips, the takeover of GM, the tax credits for buying the stupid Chevy Volt...ugh the list goes on and on...and on of the spending spree that he's gone on. So don't act like Obama is completely immune from all of this. He's been the president for three years. I'm just waiting for eight years to go by (if he gets elected again) and for him to end saying "It was all Bush's fault."

 

Both parties are corrupt. John Boehner is just as bad as Barack Obama, but the difference between Boehner and Obama is that Obama is president and Obama is continuing this massive spending spree. You could say it's not his fault if from the moment he came into office he said "let's fix this deficit" and put off his Obamacare agenda.

 

 

 

Wow. I was just trying to understand why the guy put two different bumper stickers onto his car. It wasn't my car for the record.

 

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I had a lot of hopes for Obama. Nice guy, very likable and articulate, but I don't think he is progressive and serious enough. There was no room for mistakes...but he made plenty! 

 

Should be working and making tough decisions...instead of going on tv shows and b.s. like that....especially at this moment...the markets are shaky again! icon_eek.gif

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Rather than blaming the elected officials for the economic mess the US is in, why not look at the voters.

 

As a democracy, it is the American people that have control as to who got elected.

 

Everyone running for office is very clear about what they stand for, what they want for their country, how they want to spend the tax payers money, etc.

 

Perhaps there should be less blind faith and allegiance to a party and more questions about what a politician can do for the best interest of their constituence.

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Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post

 

Rather than blaming the elected officials for the economic mess the US is in, why not look at the voters.

 

As a democracy, it is the American people that have control as to who got elected.

 

Everyone running for office is very clear about what they stand for, what they want for their country, how they want to spend the tax payers money, etc.

 

Perhaps there should be less blind faith and allegiance to a party and more questions about what a politician can do for the best interest of their constituence.

 

Agreed Dragonfly! I see so much rhetoric and name-calling from both sides on the news, and it all proves to be just a distraction from what really matters. Just last week I've seen people calling Obama a "tar baby", the tea party being called "Hobbits"....ugh, none of this matters! Unfortunately, politics is just more interesting for people when they can demonize one side and not realize that neither side is doing any good for us anymore. I just want a candidate that cares about us and doesn't just use the presidency to benefit his friends.

 

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I don't believe that we Canadians are as loyal to our parties, as Americans are.

Therefore, we can easily vote a member out, by voting for someone else.

 

Rather than letting the Tea Party take over - why not have rallies to find "candidates that care about us and don't just use the presidency to benefit their friends."

If this is started at a grass roots level, I guarantee that a brand new group of elective officials will be sitting in Washington, in a few years.

 

 

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Let's be real about this,  no Obama did not kill Osama Bin Laden but he was Commander in Chief and he was in the situation room when the whole mission went down.   He could have called the whole thing off if he decided to and if for some reason the mission went wrong guess who would have been getting all the blame.   (Just ask Jimmy Carter about that one when he tried to send helicopters into Iran to rescue the hostages)

 

But look at what is happening,  in years past the Republicans would always knock the Democrats for being soft on defense.   Listen to all the supposed candidates right now,  not a word about defense they know they can't attack Obama on this and are leaving this alone.  The raid on Obama will shut everyone up for this whole election cycle unless there is some big incident in the middle east or some terrorist attack.

 

As for the economy yes the US is one of the world's biggest economies,  but if you missed it there was a world economic recession.   The economies of Greece and Italy are in shambles.  

 

The bailouts that were started in  2008  would have happened even if a Republican had gotten into office,  Bush's Treasury Secretary was trying to push them through in the last days of the Bush administration. So its easy to put all the blame on Obama as bailouts being ineffectual, but the reality is they might have staved off the country from going into a deeper economic crises  or even depression. 

 

So JanetGrisselle you lost me.  What exactly did Bill Clinton do to ruin the economy so that when George Bush got in he would have gotten blamed?    

 

I kind of think, at least in the US there were two major factors that contributed to our downturn. 

  1. The real estate crises with all the foreclosures and resulting bank failures.  Money was too easy to borrow and there was no responsibility to be shared by anyone.
  2. The US has been fighting two really expensive wars,  with a spend whatever it takes mentality.     What a waste!

 

 

Now that's my problem with the Tea Party.  First of all none of them are really in office in a situation where they can control anything  and there message is not new.    The mantra seems to be "Don't tax me and I will spend money and it will build the economy."     This was the premise behind the original Bush tax cuts so you can tell me if that approach really works.

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Originally Posted by Darla View Post

 

Let's be real about this,  no Obama did not kill Osama Bin Laden but he was Commander in Chief and he was in the situation room when the whole mission went down.   He could have called the whole thing off if he decided to and if for some reason the mission went wrong guess who would have been getting all the blame.   (Just ask Jimmy Carter about that one when he tried to send helicopters into Iran to rescue the hostages)

 

But look at what is happening,  in years past the Republicans would always knock the Democrats for being soft on defense.   Listen to all the supposed candidates right now,  not a word about defense they know they can't attack Obama on this and are leaving this alone.  The raid on Obama will shut everyone up for this whole election cycle unless there is some big incident in the middle east or some terrorist attack.

 

As for the economy yes the US is one of the world's biggest economies,  but if you missed it there was a world economic recession.   The economies of Greece and Italy are in shambles.  

 

The bailouts that were started in  2008  would have happened even if a Republican had gotten into office,  Bush's Treasury Secretary was trying to push them through in the last days of the Bush administration. So its easy to put all the blame on Obama as bailouts being ineffectual, but the reality is they might have staved off the country from going into a deeper economic crises  or even depression. 

 

So JanetGrisselle you lost me.  What exactly did Bill Clinton do to ruin the economy so that when George Bush got in he would have gotten blamed?    

 

I kind of think, at least in the US there were two major factors that contributed to our downturn. 

  1. The real estate crises with all the foreclosures and resulting bank failures.  Money was too easy to borrow and there was no responsibility to be shared by anyone.
  2. The US has been fighting two really expensive wars,  with a spend whatever it takes mentality.     What a waste!

 

 

Now that's my problem with the Tea Party.  First of all none of them are really in office in a situation where they can control anything  and there message is not new.    The mantra seems to be "Don't tax me and I will spend money and it will build the economy."     This was the premise behind the original Bush tax cuts so you can tell me if that approach really works.

 

The point I was trying to make there was that liking the president and supporting the troops for killing Osama Bin Laden are two completely different things. Just because you support the troops doesn't mean you have to love the president. If a guy has a bumper sticker that celebrates the killing of Osama Bin Laden, an Obama '12 sticker doesn't need to be alongside it. You can support certain actions without loving the president. I would hope that there's more to Barack Obama than simply "the president that killed Osama Bin Laden". So there's a lot to dislike (or like) about him besides that.

 

I don't know if you read my previous post or not, but the later questions you asked me indicated that at least you skimmed some part of it. I agree, the Republicans really can't call Obama "soft on defense". But I'm not a republican, and I'm not a tea-partier, and defense isn't really my grievance. I never blamed Obama for the whole crisis, if you look at my previous post, I say "Bush was not the only reason." Bush's two wars were a waste, and cutting taxes when trying to fund a war was foolish at best. We only have a finite amount of money and if he was going to cut taxes, he should have had to justify why he continually cut taxes during a war. Medicare Part D was also something of Bush's that shouldn't have been implemented during the war. Bush was foolish, and I don't like him. The problem I have is blaming Bush for everything. You said it yourself, it's a world economic recession. You claim that the Bush tax cuts have done nothing, but has Obama's stimulus really done anything either? Aside from producing temporary jobs, not really. Unemployment is still high and we can't spend ourselves out of debt, something has to give. Other countries, namely China, are already chastising us for our reckless use of money.

 

Also, the economies of Greece and Italy are in shambles for the same reason ours is, they spend more than they take in. We may have been able to weather the storm had we been better able to balance the budget in past years.

 

I didn't say Bill Clinton did anything, I said that under the Clinton administration some of the problems began, namely the repealing of the Glass-Steagall act. It was passed in 1932 and was supposed to control the very speculation that led to the subprime mortgage crisis. Alan Greenspan exacerbated the problem by decreasing interest rates, but that decrease was under Bush, in 2001, so Clinton is not to blame for the decreasing of interest rates. Glass-Steagall, however, happened on his watch.

 

To say that Bush is to blame for all of it is just trying to scapegoat one person for everything, and that's not fair. Bush definitely contributed, I never absolved him of the blame. It just bothers me that Obama continues to blame Bush for it, he wanted the position, he should concentrate on fixing, not blaming. That's my grievance.

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Oh ok
 

Originally Posted by janetgriselle View Post

I wasn't trying to jump all over you, it's just you made a lot of statements prior to inquiring about the bumper stickers that I disagreed with.



 

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sorry Janet, now that you have explained it especially regarding Clinton and Bush I agree with you. 

 

I'm a registered Republican,  but despised Bush and the way he ran rough shod over human rights issues.   His legacy will be starting the two wars and how he defined torture.   

 

Obama is doing an adequate job in a highly divided political climate.  He could have shown some more leadership earlier on this spending limit debate and maybe it would have gone better,  who knows?  I'd give him an overall C for his grade over his first two years.   A lot of extenuating circumstances and some incompletes in there.

 

As for Glass-Steagall, the act that was enacted in the height of the depression in 1933 to regulate the banking industry was in some ways outdated.   The intention was that the new law that replaced it, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act in 1999 would let banks offer a broader range of services and be more competitive.   It never really had the safeguards in place to curtail the wild real estate speculation that went on.  Some would say the warning signs were there, but nothing done about it.    (maybe something about being distracted with two wars going on)  

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Originally Posted by FeliciaKnight View Post

 

OK, I have to say one thing: Stop blaming Obama that the economy isn't better. It doesn't take one term to rebuild the economy back from how Bush left it. And how is Obama ruining the economy? (Ahem, Newt Gingrich, who left his dying wife for his mistress). And Rick Perry, (the governor of Texas, the state I live in) vetoed the No Texting while Driving bill because he said that it tells adults what to do. And Bill White wanted to have a debate with Perry, but he said no.

 

Completely agree with everything you just said!

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i am quite curious who will make it, but i agree that you can't blame obama for things which started years before he got into office.

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Being a registered independent... I can't vote in the primary in PA..... or in a lot of states... which sucks... But right now, I don't like anyone in either party......... and it doesn't really matter... Politicians are all the same, they all have agendas and love to feed their friends....

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I agree Karren
 

Originally Posted by Karren View Post

Politicians are all the same, they all have agendas.


 

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Here's the thing. I don't like Obama but it's not entirely his fault our country is in the poop hole right now, the fault lies with the politicians up on that hill. They each blame the other party instead of coming up with compromises to fix things. They're like children on the playground fighting over a stupid ball. They need to grow up and stop being so greedy, selfish and self-serving. Only then will our country get back on track.

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It's the same story...All the way bak to the Roman Empire.  Back the the back stabbing was more literal and messy.  But my favorite bit was when Gringich asked for an "open marriage".  I wonder if he also ate the rown acid while at Woodstock?  Does he wear tie-dye boxers under that portly suit while he wraps himself in the American flag?  I don't support any of them.  My candidate is Pat Paulsen.  (Those of you who remember back then, know what he stood for).  I tell anyone if they have a problem or idea, the need to call (202)-456-1414 and talk to someone in charge.  By the way, that's the White House switchboard.

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I know I'm in the minority and I'm a bit ashamed to admit it (because people immediately assume I'm crazy when they hear that, they tend to give me that look like I'm a complete moron), but I actually like Ron Paul. I'm not American though, so naturally I can't vote, but I do try to push my SO (who is an American) to register so that he can vote. Too bad he is very lazy and it's a bit of a hassle to vote if you currently live in another country.

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Ron Paul may be in this race,  but its not like the media takes him all that seriously.   He seems to get less questions from the moderators than Gingrich and Romney and even Santorem. So no one seems to take him all that seriously since he does seem to be his own man.    It seems the media is really enjoying hyping this race for Gingrich to overtake the inevitability of Romney.   The lack of support in congress for Gingrich is staggering, I think he only has 11 current member that would support his bid for president.   But i don't think there are too many attacks yet because no one wants to waste the bullets at this point in time.  Newt will in time flame out whether it is over his wives (isn't Callista a peach), ex-wives, horrendous tenure as Speaker of the House  or his dealings with Freddie-Mac and Fannie-Mae (yes Newt was a historian! for them).

 

The fact that Romney hasn't sealed the deal troubles many and really bring into question whether he could beat Obama.   I heard a line recently that seems to sum it up pretty well,   Romney IS the 1%  & Gingrich is the 1 %'s lobbyist.   

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