A man's right to choose an abortion

Makeuptalk.com forums

Help Support Makeuptalk.com forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Joined
Jan 29, 2008
Messages
8,852
Reaction score
16
Wednesday, May 26, 2010 16:27 ET A man's right to choose an abortion

How much say should a man have in the choice to become a parent?

By Mary Elizabeth Williams

md_horiz.jpg
maco *nix / CC BY 3.0

Pro-choice. Keep your laws off my body. Every child a wanted child. Does that apply to men, too?

In a complicated, fascinating and refreshingly balanced story for the June issue of Elle called "The Parent Trap," writer Stephanie Fairyington explores the case of Greg Bruell, a divorced, stay-at-home father of two who, when confronted with an unwanted pregnancy, just said no. Bruell and his girlfriend had already gone through one abortion when, just months later, she found herself pregnant again. He says they'd agreed ahead of time that if she conceived again, "she'd abort without waffling." Instead, she not only had the baby, she sued him for child support. What may have been a messy private situation for a man, a woman and a child soon became a golden opportunity for the National Center for Men, an advocacy group devoted to "assertively addressing all legitimate men's concerns."

The organization, which attained attention five years ago after it filed suit over a similar story, latched onto Bruell, a man whose track record as an attentive, supportive dad seemed to block any potential cries of deadbeatism. Its director, Mel Feit, argues persuasively in Elle that "reproductive choice isn't a fundamental right if it's only limited to people who have internal reproductive systems."

And yet, it's not that simple. There are plenty of paternity tests and child-support suits to go around, but the fact remains that choice for a man is still frequently as close as the nearest door. You can't argue, as Feit has, about the Equal Protection clause when only one party is getting pregnant and bearing the full physical load of abortion or childbirth. And considering that approximately 84 percent of children in single-parent families are being raised by mothers, it doesn’t look like there's an epidemic of reluctant fathers being dragged into the role of patriarch.

When it comes to reproduction, whatever fondness we may have for exact equivalents doesn't apply. But does that mean a man has no say whatsoever in who gets to carry around his DNA? Speaking to Salon.com Wednesday, Feit said, "She has to make the ultimate decision, but he has a moral right to input," adding that, "When a man and woman have discussed what they want and have an agreement, I do not think she has a right to impose her change of mind."

Well, does she? The story's writer, Stephanie Fairyington, told us Wednesday, "Men basically have no rights on this. I wanted to explore the irony of feminists making biological claims to justify denying men equal reproductive rights." So if we'd be outraged at the notion of a woman being forced to have an unwanted child, if we wouldn't stand for a moralizing, "You knew what you were getting into when you had sex," how do we respond when those arguments are applied to a man? If we would never hold a woman who put a baby up for adoption subsequently accountable to that offspring, what expectation should there be for a man who opts out? As Bruell says in the Elle story, "I don't want to be forced to take responsibility for something that I was deceived into becoming a part of.”

But that "something" Bruell refers to isn't just a failure of birth control. Pregnancies have a tendency to result in babies, who in turn become sentient humans, as Bruell, who is in fact now spending time with and supporting his baby daughter, would likely attest. (Mel Feit's response to the story's turn of events is that, "They're figuring things out, and that's inspiring.")

It is entirely possible to grow up with the knowledge that a parent couldn't or wouldn't provide financially and emotionally for you and still be a secure, amply loved and nurtured person. The planet is full of them. But surely there's also something a little crappy about having a father who viewed your existence simply as a trick or a breach of a deal. When my own father left and didn't look back when my mother was pregnant, it was both a blessing and a supreme act of selfishness. Life is rarely black or white, especially when it comes to family.

The world would likely be a far better place if people unprepared to have children acknowledged it and made clearly stated arrangements as early in the game as possible. Bad parenting, after all, has bankrolled far more shrink sessions than merely absent parenting could ever hope to underwrite. As a writer/producer and mother of one of the coolest girls on the planet, Marcelle Karp says, "If the biological father is in any way in the child's life, the mother has every right to go to family court and demand child support. But if he has 'left the building,' then honestly, he's doing the mother and the child a favor. No kid wants a fake dad around and no woman needs a man to flake on her kid." And in among the incredibly complex, deeply emotional rhetoric of rights and responsibilities, maybe the simplest and most ethical rule of thumb for both women and men is the motivation Stephanie Fairyington had in the first place: "It seems fundamentally unfair to impose a major life decision on someone who's made it clear they didn't want it."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This was thought provoking. I think bottom line is that the bulk of the responsibility lies with the woman. Ultimately the guy made his decision when he decided to have sex with her.

 
In Canada, it is a constitutional right for a woman to have COMPLETE control over her reproductive rights.

That means that the father of the baby had absolutely no say whether she delivers the baby or terminates the pregnancy.

If the guy didn't want to be a father than he should have gotten a vasectomy. Then he would have 100% control over his reproductive rights.

And if a guy wanted the woman to carry his child to birth rather than terminate, then he should have hired a surogate and had a legal contract with her.

 
oh no we are not going to agree!!!!!!!!!!!!! :/

I think that men should have some say into whether or not a woman aborts. It took two people to make the decision to lay down with that man, it takes his sperm and her egg to make a human life, so why cant he have the right to have some say-so?

No shade but I feel like if a female wants to have full control over her body and she dosent want a man to tell her what to do in regards to a child that he helped make, she needs to find birth control or a dildo.

 
I must admit u have a different way of thinking Aprill .. nothing wrong with that of course..

But IMHO I would never allow a man to tell me what to do with my body and whats inside it. Even if it's his lil spermmies.

 
It's so interesting how a guy can get his baby if a woman wants to give it up for adoption, but not if she aborts it.

 
Ya know, a man can have all the say he wants with regard to pregnancy. however, he cannot force a woman to delivery if she doesn't want to.

And he cannot force a woman to terminate a pregnancy if she says no.

This topic is redundant in Canada as women have complete and total control over their reproductive rights.

What a woman wants is what she gets - men have zero say.

 
Originally Posted by perlanga /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's so interesting how a guy can get his baby if a woman wants to give it up for adoption, but not if she aborts it. Im pretty sure its because its in our bodies (fetus) and since its our bodies , we are solely have the right to make any decision and rightfully so.. I know its sorta sounds unfair lol
 
Two things i feel very strongly about. A woman should not be prevented from having an abortion if she feels that is not in her best interest whether she does this for health, financial or any other reason like she doesn't want to be with the guy. Likewise she can't be pressured into having an abortion if she doesn't want it. I had a GF in college who had once had an abortion and it had tormented her from that point on.

Secondly any time a guy has sex and a child results he has some level of responsibility once paternity is established.

 
I absolute think that men have a moral right to input, and I would hope that I would never get pregnant unless it was planned, with a man I respected and cared for - meaning that his opinions would mean a lot to me. But real life isn't neat like that -

until he, himself, is carrying the child... then the ultimate decision should lie with the mother. Like the article says, what, 84% of single parents are women? I guess the scenario that many women would imagine, which is why they don't want men to have more of a say, would be this:

He says: I want you to keep the baby! I think abortion is wrong!

and she says: okay, I don't agree, but I respect your argument, and we'll keep it, and raise it together

5 years later, they split.

She's stuck with the child, that she didn't want in the first place.

The fact remains that a good deal of the caring of children is left to women, regardless of how sexist it may seem, regardless of the abilities of either sex, and although full time stay at home dads are rising in numbers, they're certainly not the norm yet. Until they are the norm, or until men have to go through the discomfort and health risks etc etc of carrying a baby, I can't agree to equalrights, although I absolutely agree with Aprill that it takes two to tango.

 
Such a sticky subject this is...

The fetus cannot live without its host (the mother) therefore the fetus is part of the mother until it leaves at birth. Good thing to be Canadian
smile.gif
(sometimes). Although it may have taken 2 to tango, it only needs 1 to bring a baby to term.

 
this is all conjecture but i would like to think if I was with a woman (that I really cared about and thought i had a future with) that we would discuss the options and make a joint decision about what would potentially happen. But ultimately it would be her decision since she was the one carrying the baby. I might consider adopting the baby if she was giving it up because i kind of hate the idea of knowing i had offspring and not knowing where the child was ending up.

If this child was the product of a brief fling and i had no interest in partnering up with her it is still her decision, I would sort of hope she would decide not to have the child as i think it would not be fair to the child, but i think i would still bear a responsibility in this case.

 
The problem is that "equal" rights are never quite that equal. The only way to reach a fair resolution is to discuss the situation extensively between both parties and decide what's best for BOTH parents. The ultimate most "fair" solution to a scenario like this can vary from couple to couple. It's not a one-size-fit-all type of deal.

 
All i know is if its okay for a women to say whether she wants it or not & make all the decisions herself ..................Than she better be whilling to take care of the kid alone (no child support) Makes no sense to say "my baby, I want it, My choice.....But YOUR Money"............really? Thats just wrong

Because It sucks when the woman wans to abort Bu he wants it...........its all complicated but i believe he should have some say..........

 
Originally Posted by MakeupByMe /img/forum/go_quote.gif All i know is if its okay for a women to say whether she wants it or not & make all the decisions herself ..................Than she better be whilling to take care of the kid alone (no child support) Makes no sense to say "my baby, I want it, My choice.....But YOUR Money"............really? Thats just wrongBecause It sucks when the woman wans to abort Bu he wants it...........its all complicated but i believe he should have some say..........

I think if the relationship is on the rocks and I'm saying I don't want it and he says he wants to keep it, where's the guarantee that he will go thru with the adoption after the baby is born. What if he is just saying that to get back at me. I've known fathers that want custody of the baby only to stick the baby with his mom (not my baby!) and yes, definitely, any woman that chooses to keep their baby despite the end of the relationship should take full responsibility of the baby including 100% financial support.
 
The man should have a hefty say in it because without him you wouldnt have that mistake in your belly. People tend to forget that it takes two (traditionally) to tango.

 
Originally Posted by MakeupByMe /img/forum/go_quote.gif All i know is if its okay for a women to say whether she wants it or not & make all the decisions herself ..................Than she better be whilling to take care of the kid alone (no child support) Makes no sense to say "my baby, I want it, My choice.....But YOUR Money"............really? Thats just wrongBecause It sucks when the woman wans to abort Bu he wants it...........its all complicated but i believe he should have some say..........

Agreed.

 
Originally Posted by Ricci /img/forum/go_quote.gif Im pretty sure its because its in our bodies (fetus) and since its our bodies , we are solely have the right to make any decision and rightfully so.. I know its sorta sounds unfair lol Some people feel fetuses have no rights or don't consider them a human being yet.
 
Quote:
Bruell and his girlfriend had already gone through one abortion when, just months later, she found herself pregnant again. He says they'd agreed ahead of time that if she conceived again, "she'd abort without waffling." Instead, she not only had the baby, she sued him for child support. I think as already stated, if a woman decides to keep a baby that SHE KNOWS her partner doesn't want, it should be her sole responsibility since she alone has the ultimate decision in what happens to the child be it an abortion or whatever. Since SHE chooses alone, then it should be her responsibility.
I think though it takes two to create a life since only one has the ultimate say (and some can just be downright tricksters when it comes to trying to get pregnant) in many cases, since he has little to no say in what happens to a child before birth, (and even thereafter since in many places the mother is favored in family court) a man should only have a limited - if any- responsibility to that child.

However, If a man makes any pledge to be in a child's life and then flakes... find a good child support lawyer.

Just my $.02

 
And women have the nerve to wonder why the logistics of relationships are so bad in this day and age......And why men are passing them by.

 
Back
Top