California Legislature Approves Gay Marriage

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I believe that companies have special rules such as putting a partner on policy after 6 months etc., exactly because gay union is not recognized by the state/law. Do gays/lesbians want special rights? I don't know, I kind of saw the whole thing as them wanting the same rights as everyone else. Because it is hard to get this from the state right now, they are going for alternatives, such as these policies.

I suppose many gay couples would like to get married in church, but I think this fight is simply about the state accepting their union, with same benefits such as insurance, tax etc. etc. For them to be accepted by church as a couple would be asking too much, IMO.

i already stated before that I don't like the way this issue is put in our face, (even though I am for gay marriage accepted by state, not church), and people attacking/labeling non-supporters as homophobic etc is just wrong. Not agreeing with something doesn't mean you hate it, but you also don't have to support it. I guess at this point it is more about tolerance. From both sides.

I also don't like this whole *normal/not normal* wording. I guess i prefer something being the norm. It's like saying the English drive on the *wrong* side of the road. it is not the *wrong* side, it is a different side. (and vice versa) People believe what's right/*normal* because that's how they grew up, that's all they know. (many immigrants from different countries have gotten in trouble because some behaviour is *normal* in their country, but not here). This is were many people question the *family* as we know it. In other countries, husbands can have many wives (wrong in our eyes, not in theirs). And now the family image is being changed here too because we are having so many divorces, single parents etc. If this image is being changed by the state (what is a family), a countries views WILL eventually change. Not now, possibly not even our children, but the next generation may be different. (amazing how the government has the power to change a society. scary, really)

And actually, the thing about some animals being gay is true. It doesn't say that only one kind of animals are gay etc., but rather that in every species this behaviour can be found. It is not the norm, but it can be found. Just like asexuals can be found (not feeling sexual attraction to anybody). This can be found in humans too. Again, not many, just few.

Geez, with all the fuss about gay/lesbians, divorce etc., it almost seemes as the whole world is gay, and every other family is one-parent, divorced, and abusing. There are still some that are in love like the first time they met and loving, i swear!
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Originally Posted by Elise What I DO think is unnatural is being a virgin until you are married. Of course people are free to stay virgin for as long as they like and I certainly think no less of them but it is still UNNATURAL. Being faithful to one person is also unnatural. It just doesn't happen a lot in nature. Also according to this logic, the decision not to have any children is unnatural. Should we try to cure them of such an unnatural decision? So this arguement that it isn't natural because people of the same sex can't reproduce just doesn't mean anyhting to me. I also don't believe that people people choose to be gay. Why would they?? They don't have the same rights as straight people, they have to constantly face intolerance and hatred. All gays I personally know come from normal, everyday families. They weren't abused as children. And they didn't just wake up one day and decide to be attracted to the people of the same sex from that day on. I'm not trying to start a fight by any means, but I am curious as to why you think staying a virgin until marriage is "unnatural"? (Or for that matter, staying faithful to one person? But that has already been addressed by bluebee.) Is it because it does not occur in nature -- animals have sex whenever they feel like it? I'm not sure if that's a valid argument; human beings have moral principles that we live by, we do not live like animals! Surely you agree that in at least some aspects it is good that we don't live as the animals? For example, having laws and a government, a free enterprise system, etc? (Even if the government or economy is less than perfect, lol) This comment just struck me because hubby and I were both virgins until our wedding night. We waited in accordance to our religious and moral beliefs and certainly do not feel "unnatural" for doing so (though we may have felt in the minority!), but in fact having sex before marriage would have felt "unnatural" to us because that's not how we believe God designed sex! Anyways, I understand your point about how you don't think we should "cure" homosexuals, I just didn't appreciate the wording in the first part of your post and wanted to let you know that there are girls on this site of many different beliefs!
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For that matter, the fact that homosexuality can be found in nature isn't necessarily proof that it's all right for humans. Animals have sex with what ever animal they want, whenever and where ever they want, should humans live like that? For that matter, some male animals will fight and even kill each other for the opportunity to mate with a female, surely you don't think humans should live that way? Heck, I grew up on a cattle ranch, and the bulls would breed their own daughters if we didn't buy new bulls every few years! So the question really is: is homosexually morally acceptable? But of course, since we all have different morals and beliefs, I'm not sure if we will ever agree on an answer to that question! But as long as the people vote for it, then there's no reason why same-sex marriages can't be legal in a democratic society!

 
Im against same sex marriages. I think a law that support gay marriages is stupid. Sorry.

 
I'm not saying we should act like animals. I'm just saying if animals do it, then why is it unnatural?

Anyways, I'm done debating the topic. It's beating a dead horse; I've debated this in school, online, with friends, etc. I'm done.
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Originally Posted by Laurs I'm not saying we should act like animals. I'm just saying if animals do it, then why is it unnatural?
Anyways, I'm done debating the topic. It's beating a dead horse; I've debated this in school, online, with friends, etc. I'm done.
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lol, I don't blame you
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I was just reading this thread for a while, but that post just struck me and I wanted to reply!

 
Originally Posted by Laurs Just because you can tell if someone is gay just by looking at them or not doesn't justify judging someone solely on their sexuality. It doesn't matter if you have to be told or not; I view it as wrong to judge someone solely on their sexuality when they could just as well be a wonderful person.
Please reread my post. Again, you are saying things that I did not write. This is what I wrote "One is unable discriminate on one's sexuality (unless I'm told) but skin color is quite obvious. I can look and see that a man is a black man as his skin color is apparent, I can't look at a man skin color and say oh he's gay. " Where did I write that I can judge a person by looking at them and tell if they are gay?

You are also trying to make it appear that because I don't agree with the lifestyle I'm saying gays/lesibans have horrible personalities. Again, this is your assumption. I never said negative things about gays/lesibans only that I didn't agree with the lifestyle and deemed it inappropriate. I'm assured there are tons of wonderful gay people but just because I don't agree with the lifestyle doesn't mean I'm judging them on personality.

Ex: If a woman has a messy lady, she never cleaned always had dirty dished, clothes on the floor, ect. her home always looks choatic but was always friendly and had a smaile on her face now just because I comment that I don't like to keep a dirty home doesn't mean that I think she's horrible because I prefer to keep a clean home. It means I don't feel it is appropriate for me to have a dirty home and I have to teach my children to clean up behind themselves.

Anywhoo--enough of the great gay debate. I've had enough fun for the weekend. As stated before to each is their own with the choices and decisions they make. Live and let live.

@Tony--My apologies.

 
Originally Posted by bluebee

@Tony--My apologies but seriously some ladies need to read the posts before responding.


Please reread my post.




It's the passion of beliefs here in this thread. Thanks
 
Yikes!! This is a touchy subject! Well girls as for me, I was raised VERY Christian and was always told gay people would go to Hell and they did not deserve to be treated like humans. I grew up and realized that this is just not true. I have educated myself enough to know that Gay people are the same as everyone else, they just love differently. I have seen marriages between "Christian" straight people that have ended in abuse and violence, just as I have seen loving and monogamous relationships between gay people.

As for Marriage..... They have the "Human" right to commit and marry someone they love. And yes, even in church. Sexuality has nothing to do with spirituality. A person's relationship with god is more sacred than their relationship with another human. If they want to share that spirituality with the one they love, they should have every right.

I respect everyone's opinion on this subject. We all come from from different walks of life. I am going to end this by saying let that "perfect" person without sins or flaws cast the first stone at gay people. We have no right to judge anyone. As long as someone's actions don't hurt me or my family, I say let em' do whatever they want. Love should be unconditional.:icon_love

 
Originally Posted by BeneBaby Well girls as for me, I was raised VERY Christian and was always told gay people would go to Hell and they did not deserve to be treated like humans. Yikes! I'm sorry you were raised in such an environment, even if I don't approve of homosexuality I would never say they were less than human! In the few church services I've been to that actually discussed homosexuality, they said that it was a sin but reminded us that in God's eyes, no sin is worse than another, sin is sin! (e.g. "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God", Romans 3:23) Homosexuality is no worse than, say, telling a lie or something else that we humans might consider a "small" sin. Or so I believe
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Originally Posted by BeneBaby Sexuality has nothing to do with spirituality. I always cringe when I hear statements like this ... there are many passages in the Bible that address sexuality and marriage, and so at least for Christians, I think sexuality definitely has something to do with spirituality! But I won't discuss this here unless someone wants to, this thread was originally discussing politics and not religion (in detail) after all.
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Late to this discussion but I wanted to add something that I *think* was not mentioned (sorry if it was) but is important when speaking about legalizing gay marriages.

I believe that homosexual couples should have the right to marry. I base my opinion on the law and the United States Constitution. Put aside the moral arguments for a minute. There is supposed to be a separation of Church and State. Thus, the law should be separate from religion. As such, marriages under the law should not be influenced by religious beliefs. The whole line of thinking that marriage is only between a man and woman is due to religion, not law.

The United States Constitution guarantees the right to marry. Therefore, it should not matter what race, gender, religion, etc. the couple may be. Right or wrong, moral or immoral- that is not the issue to me. It is the law and the law should be as it stands and upheld as it stands today.

Moreover, denying homosexuals the right to marry is discrimination, much like the discrimination against African-Americans that took place in this country. In earlier years, some people had believed that marriages between races was "unnatural." For instance, in Loving v Virginia (1967), a black woman and a white man had been found guilty of violating Virginia's ban on interracial marriages and ordered to leave the state. The Supreme Court found Virginia's law to violate the Equal Protection Clause because it invidiously classified on the basis of race, but it also indicated the law would violate the Due Process Clause as an undue interference with 'the fundamental freedom" of marriage.

 
Hey wongy, haven't seen you around much!
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Very good points, the issue of separation of church and state have been brought up before (see my first post) but no one's given the specific examples that you did! I seem to remember you're a law student, right?
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Originally Posted by girl_geek Ouch, sensitive topic, Tony! Are you trying to start some debates around here?
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Personally, same-sex marriages go against my religious beliefs. However I know that this country is also supposed to separate church from state, so from a purely political, non-religious view I really can't see anything wrong with same-sex marriages or why such a bill should not be passed... Though destiny also makes some good points about why this may not be the best time to pass this bill!

Jennifer,I just have to say that I think your point of view is really mature and shows alot of intelligence being that you are religious and this does go against your beliefs.That really caught my attention, cause I am around alot of religious people and for the most part, they would not be able to stand outside of their own beliefs to see another way of thinking.

My opinion:

Religion is a whole other topic in itself but I have been on both sides of that fence and I would never be against a loving union of two people no matter who they choose to be attracted to. Who am I to judge?

 
YIKES Tony for bringing up this thread!!!

I am totally 100% for gay marriages!!! The term civil unions, marriages, couples, whatever they want to call it, is fine with me.

Bluebee, my company gives insurance to Partners male or female as long as they give proof they are living together for a certain amount of time. I don't understand why your husband's company will only give insurance to a gay partner? That sounds a little conflicting to me. Not sure if I read that your post correctly.

Another thing I wanted to touch on is how children raised in an atmosphere against gays and lesbians. This sort of thing is not going away.....you are seeing it more and more because more people are saying "I'm not living in the closet anymore, I know nothing is wrong with me, I AM NORMAL, GOD DID MAKE ME THIS WAY" Your discriminatory comments about gays being NOT NORMAL are not the way to bring your children up. They will grow up not liking gays and lesbians.

Also, not to just bluebee but to all that disagree with the way Gays and Lesbians are, they are just as good as you or I to bring up children, there are millions of children who don't have parents, or have parents that beat them or neglect them, why should they be any less fortunate then we are to adopt. I just don't get it.....

And as the Christians say....God loves everyone, and supposedly he is our creator...right? So what are these gays and lesbian people supposed to do?

As my christian friend says...."They have a choice, they can abstain, or "switch sides"..."
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WHAT?

 
This thread was meant to be regarding the CA legislature and not weather or not you beleive. My point of this whole thing was to show how messed up our legistature when the PEOPLE vote something in and they overturn it. I am just glad the GOV protected the people and that was it.

 
I also forgot that the moderators have banned discussions regarding politics. This is teatering on political so keep it clean or we will close the thread

 
Oh Tony! see what happens when you get a bunch of opinionated-makeup-loving women together trying to discuss an issue?!..lol...look what you created!
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Originally Posted by Tony(admin) I also forgot that the moderators have banned discussions regarding politics. This is teatering on political so keep it clean or we will close the thread How can you ban discussion on politics, when you asked a question about a political issue? Doesn't make sense.
I found this discussion very informative and educative. It's nice to hear other people's opinions, even if we don't agree. That's how we learn best.

 
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Hi Jess, I haven't seen you around forever! I hope everything's going well with you. Missed you.

Originally Posted by wongy74 Late to this discussion but I wanted to add something that I *think* was not mentioned (sorry if it was) but is important when speaking about legalizing gay marriages.
I believe that homosexual couples should have the right to marry. I base my opinion on the law and the United States Constitution. Put aside the moral arguments for a minute. There is supposed to be a separation of Church and State. Thus, the law should be separate from religion. As such, marriages under the law should not be influenced by religious beliefs. The whole line of thinking that marriage is only between a man and woman is due to religion, not law.

The United States Constitution guarantees the right to marry. Therefore, it should not matter what race, gender, religion, etc. the couple may be. Right or wrong, moral or immoral- that is not the issue to me. It is the law and the law should be as it stands and upheld as it stands today.

Moreover, denying homosexuals the right to marry is discrimination, much like the discrimination against African-Americans that took place in this country. In earlier years, some people had believed that marriages between races was "unnatural." For instance, in Loving v Virginia (1967), a black woman and a white man had been found guilty of violating Virginia's ban on interracial marriages and ordered to leave the state. The Supreme Court found Virginia's law to violate the Equal Protection Clause because it invidiously classified on the basis of race, but it also indicated the law would violate the Due Process Clause as an undue interference with 'the fundamental freedom" of marriage.

 

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