POLL: Racial Profiling and flying....

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Originally Posted by monniej

i'm not disagreeing, just wondering if we'd be the same america. i know that we wouldn't and that makes me very sad. once you cross some lines there is no way back.


Oh I knew you weren't disagreeing.
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Yeah, this was the point of this thread. It's a seriously tough call and I understand your point fully.
 
Originally Posted by monniej tony, being african american this is a hard one for me. i want to be safe and i want everyone else to be safe as well. having men in my family being subjected to racial profiling has been difficult for me and my family. there is also tremendous fear on the side of the person being profiled if you have done absolutely nothing wrong. i wish there was another way, but as sad as it makes me this may be the only way to stop the madness. tell me how you might feel if those being profiled were blonde and blue eyed? OT- Good point Monnie.. I am blonde and blue eyed and every one thinks im a ditz or "jessica simpson" like. I'm not. I also get ignored at the deli counter, people think that they can just push me aside cuz i am too dumb to speak up. Believe me, i know.. people think i am an easy target..

 
Originally Posted by MAC Tash, remember, they are WAGING a "Jehad" or Holy War on the US. They have many, and I mean MANY, supporters (who supported Timothy? no one)and this "Jehad" started LONG before Bush, so don't even start up about Bush. I don't think that Timothy M. waged war, just tried to take as many people out with one move.
If the FAA is listening, please PROFILE everyone and dno't profile grammas and let the middle eastern men on without profiling.

First of all, I didn't comment on Bush in any way. Second, I disagree that McVeigh didn't have followers. I lived in Oklahoma at that time and it was a war in itself. Many supporters and MANY that were appalled. The only difference was he did this in his homeland and it was immediately taken care of. With these 9/11 bombers, they have run scared and cannot be taken care of as easily because instead of carrying out these missions themselves, they took the time to recruit others to do it for them. And have recruited more since then I am sure. Trust me, if he had taken more time, McVeigh could have easily had many more followers. My point however is not to argue about him. He is gone and got what he deserves. My point was, I think yes that the middle-eastern men (maybe I made a mistake by referring to them all as 'muslim') should be more closely watched however I think that EVERYONE could be questionable. We have American followers of these people here walking among us everyday. I just think that you shouldn't see a middle-eastern and automatically think 'terrorist'.

 
Yep your right, we sure do!! Hopefully we can get our borders undercontrol





Originally Posted by tashbash

We have American followers of these people here walking among us everyday. I just think that you shouldn't see a middle-eastern and automatically think 'terrorist'.



 
AGREED !!

Originally Posted by tashbash First of all, I didn't comment on Bush in any way. Second, I disagree that McVeigh didn't have followers. I lived in Oklahoma at that time and it was a war in itself. Many supporters and MANY that were appalled. The only difference was he did this in his homeland and it was immediately taken care of. With these 9/11 bombers, they have run scared and cannot be taken care of as easily because instead of carrying out these missions themselves, they took the time to recruit others to do it for them. And have recruited more since then I am sure. Trust me, if he had taken more time, McVeigh could have easily had many more followers. My point however is not to argue about him. He is gone and got what he deserves. My point was, I think yes that the middle-eastern men (maybe I made a mistake by referring to them all as 'muslim') should be more closely watched however I think that EVERYONE could be questionable. We have American followers of these people here walking among us everyday. I just think that you shouldn't see a middle-eastern and automatically think 'terrorist'.
 
Originally Posted by tashbash First of all, I didn't comment on Bush in any way. Second, I disagree that McVeigh didn't have followers. I lived in Oklahoma at that time and it was a war in itself. Many supporters and MANY that were appalled. The only difference was he did this in his homeland and it was immediately taken care of. With these 9/11 bombers, they have run scared and cannot be taken care of as easily because instead of carrying out these missions themselves, they took the time to recruit others to do it for them. And have recruited more since then I am sure. Trust me, if he had taken more time, McVeigh could have easily had many more followers. My point however is not to argue about him. He is gone and got what he deserves. My point was, I think yes that the middle-eastern men (maybe I made a mistake by referring to them all as 'muslim') should be more closely watched however I think that EVERYONE could be questionable. We have American followers of these people here walking among us everyday. I just think that you shouldn't see a middle-eastern and automatically think 'terrorist'.
I SECOND (or third?) that!
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If we ok profiling for brown skinned men on airplanes then what next? Racial profiling is a step in the wrong direction. Who's to say that it won't lead back to the days of segregation and Jim Crow laws? I don't understand why we can't focus more on improving technology so that searches can be faster and less invasive, and so that we don't need to rely on racial profiling. We can clone sheep, but we can't figure out a better security system??

 
Originally Posted by suzukigrrl

If we ok profiling for brown skinned men on airplanes then what next? Racial profiling is a step in the wrong direction. Who's to say that it won't lead back to the days of segregation and Jim Crow laws? I don't understand why we can't focus more on improving technology so that searches can be faster and less invasive, and so that we don't need to rely on racial profiling. We can clone sheep, but we can't figure out a better security system??


Sorry Suzu, I read that wrong..if you got that email.
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lol Yes I agree that the security systems need to be beefy...so do the FBI when they checking up on someone instead of NOT checking them thinking that thier civil rights might be violated
 
I am against racial profiling of any kind. Tony, you said ALL Muslims. For one, I am Muslim, which means if they decide to check ALL Muslims, that would include my father, cousins, even me if it came down to it. We are not of Middle Eastern decent, but these days being a Muslim automatically means you are a terrorist or have links to terrorists. What a misconception!!!

Are we forgetting about Timothy McVeigh who was infact a terrorist. A white terrorist, born and raised in America? Why weren't all white, catholic males racially profiled then? The whole double-standard is ridiculous. It will not make any difference in stopping these barbaric cowards. I'm all for stricter security, but it should go for EVERYONE. You're religion and/or ethnic background should have nothing to do with anything.

I'll give you a prime example of racial profiling which I was a victim of. A couple of years ago my cousin died of a motorcycle accident and his parents decided to bury him back in Europe. By tradition we are expected to wear a white headscarf until 3 days after burial. There were 20 of us, men and women traveling from JFK, NYC to Europe. As we are ready to go through security all of us were pulled to the side before going through the metal detector and searched everywhere right there in the middle of the airport. Men's pants were unzipped and lowered to their ankles and my aunt, my cousin's mother, was searched all over, breasts, thighs, buttocks, everywhere. There are no words to describe what a humiliating experience it was to see my family members being hand searched all over. Being the outspoken person I am, I refused to be checked and asked what the reason was and why the person next to me wasn't being searched. None was given and head of security came to deal with me. After they searched my uncle, my cousin's father, I had had enough. I told them there was no reason to be hand searched just because we are Muslim and the women are wearing headscarves. I said if we need to be checked, then they will have to check every single person on line behind, next and around us. I also said why do we need to be checked if we are walking through metal detectors just like everyone else? Again no reason was given. After 15 mins, they finally let the rest of us go through without being hand searched. We in no way looked like terrorists and we all had one carry-on and were carrying US Citizen passports, so why search us? Completely unconstitutional.

It should go for everyone, no exceptions!

 
Wow, that's powerful!!! Good for you for standing up for yourself!!!

As far as my two cents, I'm completely againt any racial profiling... If they built a good enough system then everyone would be adequately checked based on the same criteria... someone's cultural or religious background shouldn't make them an instant logical choice to commit crime...

Originally Posted by Sofia I am against racial profiling of any kind. Tony, you said ALL Muslims. For one, I am Muslim, which means if they decide to check ALL Muslims, that would include my father, cousins, even me if it came down to it. We are not of Middle Eastern decent, but these days being a Muslim automatically means you are a terrorist or have links to terrorists. What a misconception!!!
Are we forgetting about Timothy McVeigh who was infact a terrorist. A white terrorist, born and raised in America? Why weren't all white, catholic males racially profiled then? The whole double-standard is ridiculous. It will not make any difference in stopping these barbaric cowards. I'm all for stricter security, but it should go for EVERYONE. You're religion and/or ethnic background should have nothing to do with anything.

I'll give you a prime example of racial profiling which I was a victim of. A couple of years ago my cousin died of a motorcycle accident and his parents decided to bury him back in Europe. By tradition we are expected to wear a white headscarf until 3 days after burial. There were 20 of us, men and women traveling from JFK, NYC to Europe. As we are ready to go through security all of us were pulled to the side before going through the metal detector and searched everywhere right there in the middle of the airport. Men's pants were unzipped and lowered to their ankles and my aunt, my cousin's mother, was searched all over, breasts, thighs, buttocks, everywhere. There are no words to describe what a humiliating experience it was to see my family members being hand searched all over. Being the outspoken person I am, I refused to be checked and asked what the reason was and why the person next to me wasn't being searched. None was given and head of security came to deal with me. After they searched my uncle, my cousin's father, I had had enough. I told them there was no reason to be hand searched just because we are Muslim and the women are wearing headscarves. I said if we need to be checked, then they will have to check every single person on line behind, next and around us. I also said why do we need to be checked if we are walking through metal detectors just like everyone else? Again no reason was given. After 15 mins, they finally let the rest of us go through without being hand searched. We in no way looked like terrorists and we all had one carry-on and were carrying US Citizen passports, so why search us? Completely unconstitutional.

It should go for everyone, no exceptions!

 
Originally Posted by Sofia

I am against racial profiling of any kind. Tony, you said ALL Muslims.



I did? I thought I was careful enough to say Muslim/middle eastern MEN correctly. Quoting myself here throughout: "ALL muslim/middle eastern men in between the ages of 20-35"





Quote:


Are we forgetting about Timothy McVeigh who was infact a terrorist. A white terrorist, born and raised in America? Why weren't all white, catholic males racially profiled then? The whole double-standard is ridiculous. It will not make any difference in stopping these barbaric cowards. I'm all for stricter security, but it should go for EVERYONE. You're religion and/or ethnic background should have nothing to do with anything.


No, we haven't forgotten him(wish we could) and he died for it also just as he should. Do I think that all white men with shaved heads and coveralls going in federal buildings should be profiled? YOU BETCHA. Was he a terrorist? Sure he was, and he needed his nut sack sliced open and his leg stuck through it. The slight difference was that he was not waging a holy war on the US though hidden cowardly means. To me, that means that they will KEEP killing and killing wherever...Britain, night clubs, vacation spots, and other places. Seems a little different when there is an entire group of people who are doing this (Al Queda, and other groups).
Don't forget, I was only commenting and asking about AIRPORTS and AIRPLANES since, I am quoting myself again "muslim/middle eastern men in between the ages of 20-35" highjacked them.

 
We lost good people on Sept 11 to TERRORISTS. That is the key word. I support all "racial profiling" of terrorists. Until we know just who those terrorists are, I think it is a terrible thing to pick on one religion. It will do nothing but breed hatred within and without the US.

I support random checks of all people.

I am a US citizen by the way.

 
Tony, I got what you are saying, but frankly now in the US it seems, if you are Muslim you are automatically put into the Middle Eastern decent catergory, i.e., terrorist, just by the way you look. I have blondish hair, green eyes and fair skin, not your typical terrorist or middle eastern person by the US way of thinking, but because we had headscarves on, we were already on the hit list. Anyway I just think everyone should be searched if that's what they are going to do. Like with this ridiculous bag check thing here in NY. Of course it's racial profiling. Are we to believe they are going to stop and check some blond haired, blue-eyed model-esque type over the dark-skinned young man with a beard? Yeah right.

 
Yeah, I know what you are saying and I understand fully. I hate it just as much as you all do. It's all terrible and I wish it wouldn't have happened..err I mean wish it wouldn't BE happening. I am glad we aren't just sitting back though.





Originally Posted by Sofia

Tony, I got what you are saying, but frankly now in the US it seems, if you are Muslim you are automatically put into the Middle Eastern decent catergory, i.e., terrorist, just by the way you look. I have blondish hair, green eyes and fair skin, not your typical terrorist or middle eastern person by the US way of thinking, but because we had headscarves on, we were already on the hit list. Anyway I just think everyone should be searched if that's what they are going to do. Like with this ridiculous bag check thing here in NY. Of course it's racial profiling. Are we to believe they are going to stop and check some blond haired, blue-eyed model-esque type over the dark-skinned young man with a beard? Yeah right.



 
Originally Posted by redrocks Let me start off by saying, Yes, 9/11 was a horrible day and the people responsible were middle eastern men. That's not a day that I'm going to forget anytime soon. Or the days and months after that. I spent time at Ground Zero for the rescue efforts with MacForMe and I know she will never forget those days either. We cried half the way there and half the way home.
With that being said, NO, I do NOT support racial profiling of ANY type. To put it simply, just because some people have given a race a bad name doesn't mean that others should suffer because of it.

If we want better security, it should be 100% across the board regardless or race, sex, or religion.

Perfect example, I have a friend who is middle eastern. His life was a living hell after 9/11. People gave him dirty looks, he was stopped in his car and harassed and everything. This kid is one of the nicest people I know. He rides on the first aid squad too. Is that fair to him just because of his background? I don't think so.

Just my opinion.

I completely agree!! All should be checked not just a certain group. As for the grandmas and grandpas being checked well that's all random. In any case we should all be checked to ensure the safety of all not a particular group.
 
Originally Posted by suzukigrrl If we ok profiling for brown skinned men on airplanes then what next? Racial profiling is a step in the wrong direction. Who's to say that it won't lead back to the days of segregation and Jim Crow laws? I don't understand why we can't focus more on improving technology so that searches can be faster and less invasive, and so that we don't need to rely on racial profiling. We can clone sheep, but we can't figure out a better security system?? Thank you! I agree with Katy on this one.
 
Originally Posted by monniej tony, being african american this is a hard one for me. i want to be safe and i want everyone else to be safe as well. having men in my family being subjected to racial profiling has been difficult for me and my family. there is also tremendous fear on the side of the person being profiled if you have done absolutely nothing wrong. i wish there was another way, but as sad as it makes me this may be the only way to stop the madness. tell me how you might feel if those being profiled were blonde and blue eyed? You're right Monnie, It's sad. It's sad that we've come so far with Technology yet we can't figure out a way to secure ourselves without making people feel like outcasts. We can sit and chat with eachother from all different corners of the world exactly as we do here on MuT, yet we cannot come up with a security sytem that doesn't descriminate against one whole race or religion because of what happened. As scary as that was, I can't agree with anything that makes people feel bad for just being who they are. It sends the wrong message and It's wrong on so many levels. It's not what FREEDOM is. We should all be free to feel okay to be who we are no matter what color our skin is or what religion we practice. Until they come up with a better solution-we must all be checked if that's what it takes. I would show up to catch my plane as early as needed to be checked right along side of everyone if that's what it takes to be safe and to not descriminate against a select group of individuals.
My BF is Italian from Sicily- and quite dark. He was getting into his car at the mall a year ago or so and some crazy lady attacked him and called him a terrorist and said he should go back to Iran and take all his people with him. She got right up in his face. When he told her he was Italian she backed off and said " oh, you're OKAY then." I was hurt by that.So, it's Ok to be Italian, but not to be Iranian? Put yourself in someone else's shoes and ask yourself how would you feel?

Take the high road. Love instead of hate when you are afraid.

Hugs to all.

 

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