Question Regarding Terms of Service between Community and MUT STAFF? Is It The Same?

[divadoll]

Do mods issue TOS violations on other mods? Your poll being sent to a non-advertiser is a violation of TOS where there should be no market surveys of any kind...

Originally Posted by zadidoll /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Ladies. Requesting and sharing referral/affiliate links is not allowed on MUT. An infraction worth 10 points can be issued by the moderators which we hate having to issue infractions.

https://www.makeuptalk.com/t/129946/have-you-dropped-your-birchbox-subscription

 

[zadidoll]

Originally Posted by divadoll /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Do mods issue TOS violations on other mods? Your poll being sent to a non-advertiser is a violation of TOS where there should be no market surveys of any kind...

Quote: Originally Posted by zadidoll /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Ladies. Requesting and sharing referral/affiliate links is not allowed on MUT. An infraction worth 10 points can be issued by the moderators which we hate having to issue infractions.
https://www.makeuptalk.com/t/129946/have-you-dropped-your-birchbox-subscription


The administrators of Makeup Talk (which include the Community Manager, Social Media Manager and Advertising Department along with the owners of MUT) are allowed to post items on the MUT that are within the perimeters of our job descriptions such contests, giveaways, "market research" (polls) and even post affiliate/referral links along with promo codes belonging to MUT such as the MUT Amazon.com affiliate links or Little Black Bag referral link, etc.

 

[calexxia]

So, the Birchbox dissatisfaction poll was an official survey on behalf of Makeup Talk? If so, the bias in the copywriting on it is even more perturbing, although now that we are all aware it was an official survey intended to encompass the entire membership of MUT, I'm sure no one would object to retaking a poll that is neutral.

 

[divadoll]

Originally Posted by zadidoll /img/forum/go_quote.gif


The administrators of Makeup Talk (which include the Community Manager, Social Media Manager and Advertising Department along with the owners of MUT) are allowed to post items on the MUT that are within the perimeters of our job descriptions such contests, giveaways, "market research" (polls) and even post affiliate/referral links along with promo codes belonging to MUT such as the MUT Amazon.com affiliate links or Little Black Bag referral link, etc.

It would stand to reason that staff can post MUT affiliated anything but this is not affliated to MUT. This is just YOUR quest and doesn't benefit MUT in anyway.  You are merely interpreting the TOS as you see fit.  If others are questioning YOUR intentions then clearly it is not in the best interest of MUT.  

 

[calexxia]

Well, she did say "perimeters", not "parameters", so maybe she meant things that are on the farthest outskirts of her position?

 

[divadoll]

Parameters in context the this situation should have been transparently evident to the benefit of MUT.  This is not the situation here as many have questioned its intentions and who is truly benefiting.  As the TOS currently stands, no 'marketing surveys of any kind' is clear.  Understandable to the benefit of MUT, things are exempt but no benefit other to MUT is apparent.  Members became upset because they found it hypocritical. 

 

[TacomaGirl]

Originally Posted by calexxia /img/forum/go_quote.gif

So, the Birchbox dissatisfaction poll was an official survey on behalf of Makeup Talk? If so, the bias in the copywriting on it is even more perturbing, although now that we are all aware it was an official survey intended to encompass the entire membership of MUT, I'm sure no one would object to retaking a poll that is neutral.

Well said Calexxia. The options given in the poll are very biased. It's worded in a negative way to influence a negative response. It's exactly how not to set up a poll in my Soc. 101 class. If I worked at Birchbox and had this information presented to me I would question the motives and education of the person presenting it.  I have higher expectations from MUT. If this is sanctioned by the higher ups, I question their integrity and wonder what they could possibly have to gain from this.

 

[divadoll]

Anyone who has any knowledge of marketing would have known that valid information can only be derived when the questions encompasses a full spectrum.  I highly doubt MUT sanctions a non-advertiser survey by staff.  This is clearly instigated by an individual and now finds her post unwelcomed and ill conceived. 

Originally Posted by TacomaGirl /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Well said Calexxia. The options given in the poll are very biased. It's worded in a negative way to influence a negative response. It's exactly how not to set up a poll in my Soc. 101 class. If I worked at Birchbox and had this information presented to me I would question the motives and education of the person presenting it.  I have higher expectations from MUT. If this is sanctioned by the higher ups, I question their integrity and wonder what they could possibly have to gain from this.

It has reached the perimeters of my sanity. LOL.

Originally Posted by calexxia /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Well, she did say "perimeters", not "parameters", so maybe she meant things that are on the farthest outskirts of her position?

 

[zadidoll]

Divadoll - administrative staff can post things that members cannot, you're more than aware of this since you were a member of staff for two years. If you have issue with what the administrative staff can and cannot post then you're more than welcome NOT to post of MUT. It really is that simple.

Exactly what is it that you're seeking to accomplish? If you have any suggestions that would benefit MUT by all means post those suggestions and I will discuss it with the owner of the site. Would you like the polls option removed from MUT? Would you like the contests/giveaways to go away (since it also violates the no contests rule)? Would you like us to stop posting about the Facebook/Twitter/Youtube channels MUT owns? Exactly what is your purpose in posting what you posted? Any helpful suggestions you have will be discussed by staff and with the owner of the site.

 

[divadoll]

Originally Posted by zadidoll /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Divadoll - administrative staff can post things that members cannot, you're more than aware of this since you were a member of staff for two years. If you have issue with what the administrative staff can and cannot post then you're more than welcome NOT to post of MUT. It really is that simple.

Exactly what is it that you're seeking to accomplish? If you have any suggestions that would benefit MUT by all means post those suggestions and I will discuss it with the owner of the site. Would you like the polls option removed from MUT? Would you like the contests/giveaways to go away (since it also violates the no contests rule)? Would you like us to stop posting about the Facebook/Twitter/Youtube channels MUT owns? Exactly what is your purpose in posting what you posted? Any helpful suggestions you have will be discussed by staff and with the owner of the site.

I have never posted anything in the 2 years I was a moderator that would be outside of the TOS.  I've never conducted 'market survey' for a non-affiliate, no one else has either.  Jeanarick pointed this out and she was a mod as well. We've never run contests that were not within the confines of MUT sponsorship. In that time, we maintained steady number of seasoned members that contribute posts every day.  I know why they left and why others are going to leave. 

What I'm trying to accomplish, like every member here is consistency and consideration.  This is lacking.  My purpose is to support what other members have already noted prior to me viewing the posts.  Isn't that what a community is about?  Support, consistency and consideration?  You moved my post from where it was and made it on its own.  Is it so that it would be easier to delete/lock?  You took it out of its context.  Since when are we not able to express our opinions?  I'm not the only one who felt that the poll YOU posted directing the negative was not MUT affiliated but one of an individual.  I was not the first to form this opinion and express it, therefore it must be true.  We are trying to make everyone accountable yet you feel you are above that.  Why do you think the seasoned members of MUT have left?  Those that remain want it to be better it won't til its leadership has changed. 

 

[MissLindaJean]

Can we call a spade a spade? There seem to be ulterior motives behind a lot of the posting, from every which way and from many of us members.

Given the wording used by zadidoll in the "unhappy BB poll/sub thread" it didn't really look like a MUT survey. It fell into the violation, got closed down. I can't attest to the reasoning/motivation  behind the creation like some have, because I didn't make it.  

Divadoll, since you were a moderator, you should be able to answer your own q regarding violations/infractions on other mods. Speaking of accountability, there is extremely harsh choice of words and always a bite to your postings regarding zadidoll.

I could care less, I'm not #team zadi or #team diva,  I can only say that as a member(since moderator status is really no elite thing and I don't use that as a means of power..it's not and shouldn't be..more of a headache at times 

) the nitpicking and arguing all over the threads is a big Charlie Foxtrot. You all definitely know how to make conversations uncomfortable and really shitty for the community as a whole. Constructive criticism...see issues and problems, point them out..then make a suggestion to fix them..Don't just heckle and poke; it's not flattering and doesn't make anyone look good. No one benefits from it, not you peeps, me, other members or MUT in general. You're killing it for everyone.

I apologize for the bit of profanity, but the personal issues fall into dirty laundry and shouldn't be aired. IF anyone has a valid concern/grievance that affects MUT, address it to whomever you need to and hopefully offer a solution you think would be fitting. Don't add to and be a part of the problem. 

 

[Pancua]

I have to agree with MissLindaJean. 

As a member, I really am getting tired of the constant harassment that seems to be driven by divadoll. Why this couldn't have been taken directly to Director is beyond me since that we already know divadoll has no issue doing that is beyond me. The only thing I can think of is to publicaly mock Zadidoll yet again.

Frankly, I'm tired of it.

 

[divadoll]

It's interesting how you can turn a neutral statement from MissLindaJean into an attack on me, Katy.  This isn't an issue about me.  I'm certain that it is so easy to turn it into a disgruntled member rant rather than a true concern for everyone in the community.  This is why my post was moved from its original location.  

It is an issue of a violation in TOS by a mod.  If I thought it could be solved by PMing Tony, I would have done so.  I was not the first to bring up the TOS regarding 'market research' another former mod Jeanarick had and others expressed their concern as well.  As mods, we took and take the TOS very seriously and we policed ourselves just as sternly as we would any other member in hopes for a good community.  I see our community crumbling and its members leaving because of inconsistencies and liberties being taking by a certain staff member.  Mocking is not my intention as I would have done so at every opportunity.  

Issues such as offensive racist posts such as the one in the BB cream thread that was locked then deleted and violations in TOS in a negatively skewed 'market research' poll to a company who is not an advertiser (that other mods were not aware of) should be addressed by everyone.  We are all accountable in this community.    

As for 'bite', the sting of true usually hurts.  Pointing out the truth doesn't make everyone feel shitty, love.  Pointing out the truth vindicates the feelings of many others in the community who would eventually just leave if those issues are not addressed.  

Originally Posted by Pancua /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I have to agree with MissLindaJean. 

As a member, I really am getting tired of the constant harassment that seems to be driven by divadoll. Why this couldn't have been taken directly to Director is beyond me since that we already know divadoll has no issue doing that is beyond me. The only thing I can think of is to publicaly mock Zadidoll yet again.

Frankly, I'm tired of it.



Quote: Originally Posted by MissLindaJean /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Can we call a spade a spade? There seem to be ulterior motives behind a lot of the posting, from every which way and from many of us members.

Given the wording used by zadidoll in the "unhappy BB poll/sub thread" it didn't really look like a MUT survey. It fell into the violation, got closed down. I can't attest to the reasoning/motivation  behind the creation like some have, because I didn't make it.  

Divadoll, since you were a moderator, you should be able to answer your own q regarding violations/infractions on other mods. Speaking of accountability, there is extremely harsh choice of words and always a bite to your postings regarding zadidoll.

I could care less, I'm not #team zadi or #team diva,  I can only say that as a member(since moderator status is really no elite thing and I don't use that as a means of power..it's not and shouldn't be..more of a headache at times 

) the nitpicking and arguing all over the threads is a big Charlie Foxtrot. You all definitely know how to make conversations uncomfortable and really shitty for the community as a whole. Constructive criticism...see issues and problems, point them out..then make a suggestion to fix them..Don't just heckle and poke; it's not flattering and doesn't make anyone look good. No one benefits from it, not you peeps, me, other members or MUT in general. You're killing it for everyone.

I apologize for the bit of profanity, but the personal issues fall into dirty laundry and shouldn't be aired. IF anyone has a valid concern/grievance that affects MUT, address it to whomever you need to and hopefully offer a solution you think would be fitting. Don't add to and be a part of the problem. 
 

 

[Pancua]

It's interesting how anything said to you is an "attack" versus an opinion when it runs in direct opposition to yours.

But you tell yourself whatever you need to in order to feel validated. Personally, I could care less. /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

Originally Posted by divadoll /img/forum/go_quote.gif

It's interesting how you can turn a neutral statement from MissLindaJean into an attack on me, Katy.  This isn't an issue about me.  I'm certain that it is so easy to turn it into a disgruntled member rant rather than a true concern for everyone in the community.  This is why my post was moved from its original location.  

It is an issue of a violation in TOS by a mod.  If I thought it could be solved by PMing Tony, I would have done so.  I was not the first to bring up the TOS regarding 'market research' another former mod Jeanarick had and others expressed their concern as well.  As mods, we took and take the TOS very seriously and we policed ourselves just as sternly as we would any other member in hopes for a good community.  I see our community crumbling and its members leaving because of inconsistencies and liberties being taking by a certain staff member.  Mocking is not my intention as I would have done so at every opportunity.  

Issues such as offensive racist posts such as the one in the BB cream thread that was locked then deleted and violations in TOS in a negatively skewed 'market research' poll to a company who is not an advertiser (that other mods were not aware of) should be addressed by everyone.  We are all accountable in this community.    

As for 'bite', the sting of true usually hurts.  Pointing out the truth doesn't make everyone feel shitty, love.  Pointing out the truth vindicates the feelings of many others in the community who would eventually just leave if those issues are not addressed.  

 

[MissLindaJean]

Originally Posted by divadoll /img/forum/go_quote.gif

  I see our community crumbling and its members leaving because of inconsistencies and liberties being taking by a certain staff member.  Mocking is not my intention as I would have done so at every opportunity.  

It's not my battle and I cannot deny that valid points might arise. I will say, divadoll, I cannot take anything you post regarding certain criticisms, specifically zadidoll serious. There is some kind of personal animosity and dislike that shows through and blinds the overall message. You just spelled it out for all to see; you've got an issue or many with a certain staff member. Doesn't take a genius to figure out who. Very derogatory and yes, rude and mocking. Inciting and inflammatory..take your pick.  I've seen other posts you've made, you're typically spot on and the bite isn't there, which leads me to that conclusion of there being something more than a member doing a lousy job filling a position. 

I  personally do NOT dislike any one member here in the MUT community and I don't care for anyone in so far I need to do work or fight the good fight for them. I'm only putting my two cents in because this is going all over the forums and is ridiculous. If I was no longer a mod, I'd still be here and present, because I like what MUT is offering, with this being the exception. I can't imagine newbs want to stick around when garbage like this is what they're seeing. It's out of hand and when it gets good and rolling, looks like a lynch mob. 

The thread with that poll zadidoll created went on for a few days, then was locked and closed by me. I wasn't paying attention(apparently no mod was) and it took another member(s) to point out that it was a violation. But that's not "justice" or good enough? Would it please members to have mods or Admin up everyone's butts for every little detail? Infraction happy? Because we can't be lax for some and not for others..tighten it up everywhere, for everyone? Because life is always so black and white, right? No.. I take my mod position seriously and enjoy it for the most part, but not this. There is more than meets the eye to this and it just stinks overall. 

 One does not speak for all. That's part of the beauty of our community. If so many members are having such similar thoughts and reflections, they should come forward and voice their opinions. If MUT staff, volunteers, Admin are pooping the bed, speak up. When you're done fingering the problem, please finish it up with a plausible solution that's benefits all. Isn't there some suggestion box/thread available for that? Forum Support , I believe. 

edited due to my grammatical flubs..sorry.

 

[divadoll]

Clearly you want your own validation to post in this thread, Katy.   Apathy requires no action at all.

Originally Posted by Pancua /img/forum/go_quote.gif

It's interesting how anything said to you is an "attack" versus an opinion when it runs in direct opposition to yours.

But you tell yourself whatever you need to in order to feel validated. Personally, I could care less. /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

I'm not speaking for all, this post was moved into it's own thread not by me.  It is given the appearance that I'm pointing this out on my own but this isn't the situation.  

 

[MissLindaJean]

Clearly you want your own validation to post in this thread, Katy.   Apathy requires no action at all. I'm not speaking for all, this post was moved into it's own thread not by me.  It is given the appearance that I'm pointing this out on my own but this isn't the situation.  

That seems like splitting hairs. Did the post or commentary originate from you? Credit is given where credit is due. I'm done with my two cents. It appears this overall is a lose lose situation. But, I stand by the fact every and any member should feel comfortable stepping forward to voice opinions, especially utilizing the forum support or direct contact. Repeating myself, please offer guidance towards a solution, if possible, after offering criticism.

 

[divadoll]

Originally Posted by MissLindaJean /img/forum/go_quote.gif

That seems like splitting hairs. Did the post or commentary originate from you? Credit is given where credit is due.

I'm done with my two cents. It appears this overall is a lose lose situation. But, I stand by the fact every and any member should feel comfortable stepping forward to voice opinions, especially utilizing the forum support or direct contact. Repeating myself, please offer guidance towards a solution, if possible, after offering criticism.

I had offered many solutions including an apology from Zadidoll for her offensive remarks about the Chinese, of which I happened to be.  She refused.  People who are offended by these remarks are left with unresolved emotions.  The thread was closed, deleted and no explanation nor apology was provided. Tony said to quit blaming and her first post was to blame me.  I emailed Tony, he gave me no response.  What would suggestion would you like me to provide on that?

I provided criticism on what makes valid poll, I questioned how the poll applies to the TOS as it appears staff know how to enforce it on others but not themselves.  The thread was closed, Zadidoll was nowhere to be found for an explanation.  Where is the accountability? Lately, mods throw around the TOS like it were candy but their leader has no idea what it means.  What sort of suggestion would you like me to give on that, Linda?  

 

[DonnaJ]

Originally Posted by Pancua /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I have to agree with MissLindaJean. 

As a member, I really am getting tired of the constant harassment that seems to be driven by divadoll. Why this couldn't have been taken directly to Director is beyond me since that we already know divadoll has no issue doing that is beyond me. The only thing I can think of is to publicaly mock Zadidoll yet again.

Frankly, I'm tired of it.

Originally Posted by Pancua /img/forum/go_quote.gif

It's interesting how anything said to you is an "attack" versus an opinion when it runs in direct opposition to yours.

But you tell yourself whatever you need to in order to feel validated. Personally, I could care less. /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

Holy crap! That is not a simple opinion, it's not even just an attack. That is a very personal flame!

I very sincerely disagree with you too. I saw that racist post and was upset by it too. Many of us expressed our opinions on it, but zadidoll brushed us all off and laid the blame on divadoll then too. Even though it was others who were upset by it first and divadoll only came in much later to express her disgust when she saw that once again zadidoll was ignoring it, making excuses, blaming others. That is what seems to drive divadoll's posts if you ask me. By then it's no wonder she is upset and using stronger language. This is a pattern with zadidoll that you are ignoring simply because divadoll notices it and says something, so you blame her instead!

I really hope you move this post back where it was. It is taken out of context and makes it look like divadoll has a vendetta instead of being one of many who commented and were upset. Also if you really want everyone's opinions then you can't hide posts in random spots like this one. Leave it where it was and people will give their opinion too.

(edited because I didn't know how to multi-quote and did one twice.,)

 

[Pancua]

Originally Posted by DonnaJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif



Holy crap! That is not a simple opinion, it's not even just an attack. That is a very personal flame!

I very sincerely disagree with you too. I saw that racist post and was upset by it too. Many of us expressed our opinions on it, but zadidoll brushed us all off and laid the blame on divadoll then too. Even though it was others who were upset by it first and divadoll only came in much later to express her disgust when she saw that once again zadidoll was ignoring it, making excuses, blaming others. That is what seems to drive divadoll's posts if you ask me. By then it's no wonder she is upset and using stronger language. This is a pattern with zadidoll that you are ignoring simply because divadoll notices it and says something, so you blame her instead!

I really hope you move this post back where it was. It is taken out of context and makes it look like divadoll has a vendetta instead of being one of many who commented and were upset. Also if you really want everyone's opinions then you can't hide posts in random spots like this one. Leave it where it was and people will give their opinion too.

(edited because I didn't know how to multi-quote and did one twice.,)

I'm not ignoring anything. The whole way this has been handled has been poor and this isn't making it any better. And I didn't move the post so I can't do anything about that so please don't place that blame on my feet, thankyouverymuch.