Be a Bombshell quality discussion

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annmalone11 said:
Be A Bombshell. I have not seen any Hikari products in there. My friend is a designer for them and travels all over the world for "inspiration" so I know they design their own products, components, name colors, etc. She has worked for them for a long time and loves it there. I do not think they are a private label company since they design everything.
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How do you know they design everything when everything points to PLMs from China.

 
I think maybe we're all using private label to mean different things? It's my understanding that there are companies that you contact that will just put your name / logo on premade stuff (that was made in PRC, usually) and then companies that will manufacture and package products for you, based on your own specifications and formulations (again, generally in PRC).  Obviously the second method is more expensive and more likely to yield novel products and better quality, if that's what you're going for. No idea which method BaB / Hikari uses, but it's totally plausible that they are designing stuff in-house and just getting things made by iShine. 

Interesting reading on the subject:

http://cosmeticsentrepreneur.com/2012/03/10/reader-question-who-develops-our-formulations/

http://cosmeticsentrepreneur.com/2011/10/18/brand-private-label-cosmetics-as-your-own/

 
TreatChoself said:
I think maybe we're all using private label to mean different things? It's my understanding that there are companies that you contact that will just put your name / logo on premade stuff (that was made in PRC, usually) and then companies that will manufacture and package products for you, based on your own specifications and formulations (again, generally in PRC).  Obviously the second method is more expensive and more likely to yield novel products and better quality, if that's what you're going for. No idea which method BaB / Hikari uses, but it's totally plausible that they are designing stuff in-house and just getting things made by iShine. 

Interesting reading on the subject:

http://cosmeticsentrepreneur.com/2012/03/10/reader-question-who-develops-our-formulations/

http://cosmeticsentrepreneur.com/2011/10/18/brand-private-label-cosmetics-as-your-own/
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Yes, most big cosmetics companies use the same manufacturers/suppliers, and just ask for certain things like colors, etc., and have their label printed on the product. They're not all going to build their own cosmetics manufacturing plants when those already exist. But that doesn't mean they don't develop the products to a certain extent. See for example: http://beautyandthebullshit.blogspot.com/2011/03/pencil-pornication-sequel.html

 
OMG, Lyn, I was totally trying to find that beauty and the bullshit blog to post in this thread, but couldn't remember what it was called... and now I see that the whole reason I was aware of it was because of you! I love Cheap as F!  

 
Julep uses PLMs as well. A private label manufacturer is just that - a manufacturer who is able to make a product for a company who then applies their name to the bottles or packaging. There is not wrong with a PLM since not every company can own their own labs and manufacturing plants. Even Sugarpill uses a PLM.

Now some companies do work with the PLMs to create their own colors based on what is offered by the PLM. Julep does this which is why they're able to come up with so many polish color variations. Starlooks and MicaBeauty on the other hand use to (I don't know if they still do) simply buys things straight from the manufacturer's pre-made catalog and slapped their name on the packaging. Some PLMs are good, some are bad.

Like I said before, nothing wrong with PLMs since even companies like CVS, RiteAid, Target and so many other companies use PLMs. There's actually a magazine dedicated to PLMs which I picked up at Cosmoprof trade show a few years back which actually had articles discussing the beauty PLMs and I think it was in that article that discussed CVS' PLM beauty products.

 
It definitely does seem like using a PLM can lead to quality control problems and lack of a control over formulation/production (hence why I also quit Julep - some polishes were amazing and others just sucked).

 
I knew of the issues with Bab products but  is there anything wrong with the Hikari lipstick we received in September? I used it once and I liked it.

 
Quality varies from product to product- I've received four BAB products from Ipsy- the Bora Bora quad, the infamous mascara, setting powder and the eye base.

The only truly bad one was the mascara, and it was really only because mine dried out after a few uses. Some people freaked out over the smell but it really wasn't that bad. The Bora Bora quad is something I use from time to time and don't have issues like some had with pigmentation. The setting powder is the exact same thing as every other brand's setting powder in that they dumped cosmetic grade silica powder in a jar and put a fancy label on it (seriously, MUFE's setting powder has the exact same ingredient as this, same with the ELF product) so there's not a lot of room for screwing it up. The eye base is meh, I like the color and packaging but it creases pretty quickly so I don't really use it a lot.  

Overall, I find the products to be on par with ELF and NYC products- some are good, some are just okay, and some are terrible. That'd be okay at a $5 and less price point, but for $15-$20 products, I would not repurchase. I'd pay $8 for the eyeshadow quad if it had nicer packaging, but that's about the most I'd pay for any of the products I've tried so far.

 
I agree if they priced the item at $5 or under they would be on point, but please don't try to sell it for the same price as Mac or UD and think you can pass crap off on me.

I've received 6 BAB products from various subs and they have been BAD, quality and some were even foul smelling. My mascara's smell was so strong that it filled my makeup area....so I'm guessing you got a "good" one.

 
hipsterhippo said:
Quality varies from product to product- I've received four BAB products from Ipsy- the Bora Bora quad, the infamous mascara, setting powder and the eye base.

The only truly bad one was the mascara, and it was really only because mine dried out after a few uses. Some people freaked out over the smell but it really wasn't that bad. The Bora Bora quad is something I use from time to time and don't have issues like some had with pigmentation. The setting powder is the exact same thing as every other brand's setting powder in that they dumped cosmetic grade silica powder in a jar and put a fancy label on it (seriously, MUFE's setting powder has the exact same ingredient as this, same with the ELF product) so there's not a lot of room for screwing it up. The eye base is meh, I like the color and packaging but it creases pretty quickly so I don't really use it a lot.  

Overall, I find the products to be on par with ELF and NYC products- some are good, some are just okay, and some are terrible. That'd be okay at a $5 and less price point, but for $15-$20 products, I would not repurchase. I'd pay $8 for the eyeshadow quad if it had nicer packaging, but that's about the most I'd pay for any of the products I've tried so far.
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Yep. I'm already way past my saturation point with BaB, but the quality really is no better than what I could get from ELF and in many cases, worse. For the amount of money they charge, I could get a higher end drugstore product, a midrange like UD, or several well- made indie products.

 
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I think there are a lot of amazing low priced brands out there, NYX is my religion basically.

But I hate that some companies are trying to piggy back off of the success of brands like UD, Stila, or MAC by packaging subpar makeup in sleek packaging and putting a prestige price tag on it (like I enjoyed the Starlooks sub but I never felt their makeup was worth their "retail" price tag).

 
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meaganola said:
I have a feeling that the reason prices are as inflated as they are is because they have to offset the stuff they're giving to ipsy *somehow*.
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That's a good point. Free advertisement is always good but it comes at some sort of cost.

Plus ipsy benefits from it directly because they can say "this lipstick has a $15 value!" when in reality its like a $5 value.

 
meaganola said:
I have a feeling that the reason prices are as inflated as they are is because they have to offset the stuff they're giving to ipsy *somehow*.
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RIGHT, and it's not just Ipsy, I've gotten BaB from probably 4 different subs, and most more than once. That has to add up. And I can't see it benefitting them, as almost everyone I know who has gotten subs for a while is sick of getting the products! 

 
Wait - hold the presses - the box companies don't pay for the products? I just assumed they paid some kind of defined mark-up over actual production costs.

 
TreatChoself said:
Wait - hold the presses - the box companies don't pay for the products? I just assumed they paid some kind of defined mark-up over actual production costs.
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It's called a Marketing Opportunity and the more commonly known ways this occurs is at trade show where companies want to include their product into a press bag. Cosmoprof and IMATS are two trade companies, and I'm sure it happens at The Makeup Show as well but I've never been so I can't be sure, where press bags are given out filled with swag HOWEVER all the swag in those bags are considered to be advertisements that the companies pay the trade show to be included. It's the same way with most - if not all - legitimate subscription services. Manufacturers/cosmetic/beauty companies pay Birchbox, Ipsy, Pop Sugar, etc to be included in the boxes/bags PLUS there is probably a bit of other profit for both the subscription company and vendor depending on the company and their contacts.

I know that Cosmoprof charges $400 to have an item included in their bags, $8000 to be a sponsored lanyard. I don't know what the current IMATS prices are for the swag bags but in the past it also was several hundred dollars. I can only imagine what Ipsy, Birchbox, Pop Sugar charges for the inclusion but considering that Ipsy and Birchbox both have over 200,000 paying subscribers and their financial statements are over $10 million per year I can only hazard a guess it's at least $1,000 per item to be included IF not way more.

 
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zadidoll said:
I can only imagine what Ipsy, Birchbox, Pop Sugar charges for the inclusion but considering that Ipsy and Birchbox both have over 200,000 paying subscribers and their financial statements are over $10 million per year I can only hazard a guess it's at least $1,000 per item to be included IF not way more.
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This is way more informative than what I could have said. I started to realize most brands pay or have to give these companies their products when after a year of getting amazing full sized products of Stila's from Birchbox they suddenly stopped and have never to be seen again. Whereas Coola and that hotel lotion brand are featured regularly. 

 
Clarification by "per item" I mean per item unit. For example, lets say a cosmetic company "gives" Ipsy 250,000 units of a particular item then that company might be paying several thousand dollars to be included in the Ipsy bag. This is probably why many of the companies offer super killer promo codes to Ipsy subscribers or really crappy ones because they figure they'll make the money back with those codes.

PLM companies are probably not losing that much money with subscription boxes. I'm willing to bet that companies pay Ipsy, Birchbox, Beauty Army and other similar companies for their products to be sent to subscribers in attempts to gain new customers. In many cases it works and companies sell out of products but in some it can destroy a reputation very fast if the product is crap.

 
This whole thread has been fascinating - I've learned so much! =)  Thanks for the info zadidoll. I truly had no idea that the markets were so big.  

 

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