Spouse vs Children: Which Relationship is the Priority?

(Moderators: I'm not sure this is in the right place, so much has changed since I last logged in lol.)

I know I can always come here for logical opinions and advice, as random as I may be /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />.

Now, the situation: Which relationship do you prioritize when it comes between your spouse or your children? Maybe I'm looking at this completely wrong or I'm rationalizing everything in the wrong order. I know that our past experiences determine our answers therefore I'd greatly appreciate everyone's input. 

I have been having a personal battle with my spouse in regards to this and I am mature enough to realize that there is no right or wrong.  There are so many gray areas when it comes to family dynamics and what works for one family may not work for another.

My spouse feels that our child should come first no matter what.  Literally, as in set in stone. He feels that our child has to be an aspect of every moment in our lives and makes decisions that revolve solely around him.  His reasoning is that while I may be his wife and he may love me dearly and wants to spend the rest of his life with me, at the end of the day only our child will really be with him til the end. He reasons that we may separate, that one day we might not be together anymore but that at least he'll always have our son.  He claims that at least he knows that no matter what happens to me my son will always "have his back" or be there because that is his flesh and blood.  All this is how he truly feels. I can't even remember the last time we went out on a date.

As much as I adore the fact that he loves our son this much and never have to worry about that aspect of their relationship, it has taken a toll on our relationship and deteriorated our bond dramatically throughout the years.  I feel that our relationship should come first as long as it doesn't jeopardize our relationship with our child. For instance, if I decided that I wanted to get drunk and party all weekend, I wouldn't expect my husband to ditch our son just to put me first. First of all, I wouldn't even do that...I have never been drunk, never even been in the presence of drugs, and I'm not a party person.  I'm also not saying that if I want attention that I should always get prioritized no matter the situation. I know that sometimes our relationship is going to have to be put on the back burner should we be dealing with a bigger crisis involving our son.

HOWEVER, my strong belief is that happy children come from happy parents.  Happy parents are able to work together as a team to guide their children.  They create a strong unit of love that is a safe haven for their children.  I remember when I was child, no matter how difficult my relationship got with my parents, I knew I could always count on them as my home base through my emotional turmoil.  They lost and gained together and I always saw them as one.  I truly feel that children benefit greatly from not always being the front and center of every circumstance.  It teaches them the value of respect and unselfishness.  It shows them how a marriage (my personal status) should be valued and that it's not just something that can be walked away from when you get bored or decide otherwise.  It gives them security.

Having my son is a blessing, a hard, difficult but very fulfilling joy.  But I'm well aware that when I brought my son into this world that as a parent it was my job to raise him to the best of my knowledge so that he could grow up to hopefully be a good person with morals and values.  He may be my little man right now, but at the end of the day I'm raising someone's future husband and father. I do not take this lightly. Like my grandmother says, when you get married, you are technically now a grain of sand from a different beach.

I've read up on marriages of older individuals who have been married for decades and the one pattern I noticed was how they always put each other first.  It makes sense, me and my husband were together before our son, we are together while we raise him, and hopefully will still be together after he "leaves the nest."  How can this be possible if our relationship isn't the number one priority.  I'm not saying that while our relationship should come first that our relationship with our son should be any less important.  I feel that if a couple is honestly constantly working at their marriage, that love will trickle down to the children and they will appreciate it much more.  That happiness comes naturally when you have happy loving parents.  Our relationship is the foundation of the family.  The family would not be possible if it wasn't for our relationship.  When we got married, we made vows to each other and no one else.

I want to make it clear that I'm not saying that I trying to be selfish and make it all about me, me, me, I , I , I, only us forever and ever and ever. When I married and the way I view my marriage is that my husband is just like my child and on a certain level more significant.  My son did not have a choice in who his parents were but we had a choice in who we wanted to spend the rest of our lives with.  It makes it that much more sacred to me. But just how I feel I could never part from my son, I feel the same way with my spouse.  And the significance, once again, and that this bond is not one of flesh and blood but of choice.  Our son is the byproduct of our love and very significant to me. 

In my mind, motherhood and being a wife are two very complicated intertwined identities of mine. But I'm a wife first and then a mother.  I've noticed how my sons reacts when he sees that me and my husband are genuinely happy and lovingly carefree. He has that twinkle in his eye that shows just how secure he feels that he has the both of us. My husband will give me a hug and a kiss and my son will melt on over and want some of that love as well because in my mind, he enjoys that security of having both of us. 

 Maybe I'm looking at it completely a$$ backwards lol but any advice at how I may be seeing this incorrectly or maybe not seeing it from his point of view would be greatly appreciated. I'm very confused.

Yeah - I'm more the spouse comes first attitude.  In the end your children will leave the nest and you are left with only your cock...I mean ROOSTER... Rooster. yeah. you're left with him.

When I was married, I placed my husband above my son - but just slightly.

But then, I met and married my husband before I became pregnant. So I had more time invested in my husband.

When I divorced, I couldn't have cared less if my husband dropped dead.

Since then, my son means more to me than life itself.

so I guess it's all relative...

I find the subject kind of odd. I don't understand why anyone plays favourites when it comes to spousal/child love.

I'm curious if you had a second, third, etc children - where would your husband place them in order of love?

Who would he favour and how would it make everyone feel?

I always thought that love made one's heart expand to include everyone - not just who you would age with or who has your back.

We have a mutual understanding in our house to put our children above our relationship.  But, I'm sure that not everyone has the same wonderful relationship that my wife and I do.  Love you Reija!
 

Originally Posted by Dragonfly /img/forum/go_quote.gif

When I was married, I placed my husband above my son - but just slightly.

But then, I met and married my husband before I became pregnant. So I had more time invested in my husband.

When I divorced, I couldn't have cared less if my husband dropped dead.

Since then, my son means more to me than life itself.

so I guess it's all relative...

I find the subject kind of odd. I don't understand why anyone plays favourites when it comes to spousal/child love.

I'm curious if you had a second, third, etc children - where would your husband place them in order of love?

Who would he favour and how would it make everyone feel?

I always thought that love made one's heart expand to include everyone - not just who you would age with or who has your back.

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I see it like a juggling act of affection.  We have 2 children, we have been married 15 years and together for 19 years.  Our child come first in terms of needs and attention but we do try to make time for each other.  Children need guidance and attention and we both realize this and since they are still young, we want to make as many memories with them as we can.  

 

I'm not a mom, so I don't know they dynamic of a relationship with a child, but one question, if you leave your husband and get remarried to someone else, is your child still second? In my opinion a spouse can be swapped, a child is a part of you forever.

Thats how I feel... children only really need you for a short period of time and we want to be there.  They see things differently and in turn give us a different perspective on life as well.  We re-learn to laugh at ourselves as well as each other.  

First of all Adrien A familiar face to me here on MUT  I missed ya!!! /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

Now for me married or not I believe your children ALWAYS come first, not in that weird stage mom or Suffocation all over my child no time for sex, talking, or friends mom  But They are your children For me When I was pregnant Nothing else in the world mattered to me But my baby & When she........& later on he Was born I couldnt see anyone else being more important to me EVEr!!!  A relationship of course is important & a good stable loving one is great for your kids But I could never nver put a man before my kids !!!!   I also find it odd for your husband to keep throwing it in your face that "Although"  he may love you his son will always be there, Well you both said your vows & are married & as a MAn he should not be thinking these "if we" should separate, or " if we dont work out"    he should be happy loving you & your son & not thinking or putting these 'bad' thouhts into the  air     Are they hints or something??

I also find it odd that Dragon mentioned I placed my husband slightly above my child, than i divorced & its all about my child ......... I personally think it should have been all bout your child to begin with and not these "well i didnt but now i do" emotions   But either way Im glad you feel the way you do now for your childs sake! /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

Ive seen many women love both children & spouses happily in love & all that good stuff & When the spouse leaves these women Fall apart like they have no life left, no personality, no reason for living................& are too busy crying or feeling sorry for not being loved when They dont realize all they need is right in front of them in perfect little beings  I just look at my children playing or sleeping or laughing or even just eating & think My goodness is there anything else better?...................no!!!!  no husband no relationship no boyfriend.    

Adrienne, you are right in saying that there is no right or wrong in answers to this question.  Everyone has to deal with their family in the way that is right for them and their needs at the time.  My husband and I generally nurture our relationship first because in the long run if we are on solid ground as a married couple and are a happy and hormonious pair, then it spills over into our relationships with our sons.  On the flip side, there are many ways we put the kids first, but we put the kids first as a united couple who are on the same page.  So in a sense, our relationship still came first because we agreed before hand that certain needs the kids have would take priority.  We often do without so that we can make sure our kids have all their needs met.  All I know is that if my husband and I take care of each others emotional needs first then we have an abundance of love, time and patience to shower on our kids.  Happy healthy parents make for happy healthy children.

Originally Posted by DreamWarrior /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Yeah - I'm more the spouse comes first attitude.  In the end your children will leave the nest and you are left with only your cock...I mean ROOSTER... Rooster. yeah. you're left with him.

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HA. Well said. I agree with you there. I don't have kids, so I don't know yet, but I really think that if the parents are happy, the kids will be happy. My parents were all about putting the kids first, but honestly you can tell when your parents aren't happy and that impacts you just as much.

Both! 

Ok, here are my 2 cents:  Happily married for twenty years at the end of this month with two awesome daughters.  IMHO, marriage, life in general for that matter, is all about BALANCE!  There is a time that the relationship with your spouse needs to come first and there is a time when your children need to come first.  Really helpful, huh? 

There is no checklist to follow - you need to go with your instincts, but always keep in mind that neglecting one of these relationships in favor of the other is going to lead to failure.  There are times where you have to put your total focus on your children.  There are other times when you need to toss a bag of Cheerios on the floor in front of the TV and give your honey your total attention.  (Just kidding CPS!)  You are on the right track. 
 

Originally Posted by Adrienne /img/forum/go_quote.gif

HOWEVER, my strong belief is that happy children come from happy parents.  Happy parents are able to work together as a team to guide their children.  They create a strong unit of love that is a safe haven for their children.  I remember when I was child, no matter how difficult my relationship got with my parents, I knew I could always count on them as my home base through my emotional turmoil.  They lost and gained together and I always saw them as one.  I truly feel that children benefit greatly from not always being the front and center of every circumstance.  It teaches them the value of respect and unselfishness.  It shows them how a marriage (my personal status) should be valued and that it's not just something that can be walked away from when you get bored or decide otherwise.  It gives them security.

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That about sums it up.  Happy children DO come from happy parents!  And they see everything!  I like to think that they will demand from any relationship they are in the love and respect that we show each other. 

Adrienne, after reading your post you have nothing to worry about.  You "get" it! 

Best to the whole family.

Deb

Most of what all of you are saying is true to some extent BUT... and the is a big  BUT. GOD created man first then woman. Really we should go back to biblical teachings this is why everyone is so messed up, with prenuptial meaning sorry love but I do not trust you.. Man has always been then head of the family this is why he was created first to rule over the heavens and the earth, to go and multiply in marriage that is and not multiply eight every Tracy , Sharon and Vicky..lol Jokes aside  marriage is serious this is why God is mentioned in the ceremony of marriage because he created man and woman for that purpose. Marriage and then to have children we are his creation we are his children and all he wants from use is a relationship with him and to follow his word (the bible) Now I can hear you say this is why the world is messed up in the first place you just may be right but it is not religion alone that has messed us all up. We all play our part in life and it is up to us to do the right thing and we all know what the right thing is even as babies w know what is right and wrong and why is that? because it is a natural instinct and we are what we are because of  our parents. Some of you have been fortunate to be loved by two loving parents and that is great.. Debglam mentions..'I truly feel that children benefit greatly from not always being the front and center of every circumstance.  It teaches them the value of respect and unselfishness'. She is so spot on and I truly agree, ladies we must put our man first do the right thing that way he will see how your value and worth love not in money but relationship. 

The women was created for the man to not be alone as it is written in the bible Genesis 5:24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be UNITED to his wife, and they will become one flesh. this is unity, bonding , togetherness, loving each other.

25 The man and his wife were both naked and felt no shame ....When you sleep with your husband do you feel shame ? of course not. I cannot stress it enough God created man and woman for a reason to love on another and if you do feel shame then there is a serious problem.

Your children are never above your husband but these are the days we are living in with single parents one of which I am. Deep down us women want a husband to care and nurture us really it is what the LORD GOD intended in the first place. Yes we are to love, nurture pass on the  knowledge and wisdom in a loving and respectful way to our children so they can grow with the confidence of bringing up their own children, It is not about juggling affections we should love each other UNCONDITIONALLY equally. Ok ladies you might be thinking this lady is not living in reality... well go to PROVERBS CHAP5:VERS19 A loving doe, a graceful deer- may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be captured by her love. 20 Why be captivated, my son, by an adulteress? Why embrace the bosom of another man's wife.  In deed why? Why do men do that go off with another but do not get me wrong this scripture is also for women too. Your spouse must come first if only to keep him from straying. What ever your questions are the answer is in the bible. I am not trying to convert you only God can do that just look at the book of PROVERBS- the wisdom of King Solomon anything you want to know about love respect pride, guilt, riches, poor, humility, theft, death, children marriage,friend, prostitution, wisdom, knowledge, teaching,wickedness, adultery, idolatry, righteousness, unfaithful, curses ---  it is all there  

example:  prov:11:26 People curse the man who hoards grain, but blessing crowns him who is willing to sell.  Inter: Those who give freely gain ten fold but those who keep hold of their goods stay poor. It is amazing when we are in a relationship who both partners suffer when one is willing to give all from their heart freely and lovingly and the other holds back or closes off hence the relationship brakes down cursing the marriage to fail. I don't have all the answers but I know a man who does and he is my father daddy God.  I hope some of what I said made sense. Stay blessed ladies Jesus loves youx

Hmmmm... okay :/

I personally find religious posts offensive as we all have our own beliefs. Not all of us are christians. I definitely am not. I have also seen and experienced first hand the hatred, degradation and abuse that is fueled by religions and religious teachings of many kinds, including christianity, in many countries. If it is permissible to post religious posts on these forums, as above, then it must be permissible for me to post that I personally believe that all religions are based on the teachings of human beings, NOT any god, and all are the direct cause of war, famine, hate crimes, child abuse, spousal abuse, racism, sexism, terrorism, etc. My husband was born into Islam, and I was born into a christian type religion. Both of us have spent a great many years researching the origins of those religions AND others, and have come to the conclusion that all religious teachings are a bunch of BS, as are religious texts such as the bible, quraan, etc. Needless to say, he is no longer Muslim and I am definitely not christian. Both of us are a lot happier since making those decisions, as are our children.

And keeping with the topic, I personally don't believe that either relationship is more important than the other. They are both equally important in their own ways, for their own reasons. If you neglect your spouse or your children, for whatever reason, you are going to end up with problems. Children go out in the world and shape the future of humanity. If we neglect them in any way, we directly neglect society and humanity as whole. As other people said, those children will later be going out into the world, getting married and having children of their own. That is my main concern when it comes to them. That I raise human beings that will go out and do the right thing when the time comes. I personally respect my husband a great deal as he is an amazing human being, but I do not put him on a pedestal above my children, or mistakenly think in my mind that he is to be treated as a god. My husband and I treat each other equally, as human beings who both have the right to mutual respect, which then directly ties into how we deal with our children. As a result, our children know that we are always there for them, but that we stand together as a couple in terms of raising them. They know that if I say no, dad will back that up. We also spend time together, yet have our own interests as well. We are not tied at the hip, but we are also not in our own little worlds. I actually think that my husband feels he *should* be tied to my hip, but I encourage him to take part in things which interest him as much as possible. Otherwise, he would end up living his life solely for me. I personally do not believe that is healthy for either a husband or a wife. I also do not believe it is healthy for a husband or a wife to put their children before their spouse. This is the person you promised to take care of in all ways and manners when you married. This includes NOT making them feel as they are secondary to your children. That would hurt a great deal and I cannot even imagine my husband treating me like that. There is no way to know how long our children will live, so therefore, his reasoning seems a bit strange to me. And as far as his children 'having his back', children are meant to go out into the world and make their own lives. I personally do not view my children in this way, as much as I love them to death. At some point, I will have to let go of them and allow them to have their own lives. In my mind, that is what a husband/wife is for. Spouses should have each others backs, no matter what.

Will I be devastated if my husband dies before me? Absolutely. He truly is an amazing human being, kind, selfless, generous, thoughtful, cares very much about what is going on in the world, puts me first before his own wants and desires, loves animals like you wouldn't believe, and truly dedicates as much of his time as possible to me and his family. I have never met anybody like him in my lifetime. But I know I will survive if he dies before me, as hard as it will be. I've survived a lot in my 43 years, fortunately and unfortunately. He, on the other hand, has said he will join a Buddhist monastery if I die first. Yes, this may sound strange to many people, but he has Buddhist beliefs. When he left Islam because he could not justify following a man-made religion (which all religions are) which preaches killing and hatred when he himself is very much a pacifist in his heart, he gravitated towards Buddhism. He also does not believe in having more than one spouse in his lifetime - which is his own personal belief. If I die first, he plans on spending the rest of his life dedicating his life to humanity in general, and making the world a better place to live in overall. I was shocked when I first heard this, and told him I would not expect him to remain alone for the rest of his life. That wouldn't be right for me to expect that of him any more than it would be right for him to expect that of me. But this is what he feels is the right thing for him to do. So truly, I think he puts me on a pedestal, rather than I putting him on one. He really is a wonderful person, and I truly believe I am lucky to have spent any time at all with him in my lifetime. I really do not know if I would ever marry again if he goes before me. I don't think I would as nobody I will ever meet in the future would ever measure up to him.

What about the hatred, degradation and abuse toward religious people that is fueled by those that hate religion? If you're so happy about making your decision to reject religion, why couldn't you just laugh at the previous post and move on? I'm just going to tell you, I'm not a Catholic, Muslim, Jew or any of that, but I would never force my religious beliefs on anyone, your anti-religious beliefs sound just as preachy to me as the above person's religious beliefs, get off your high horse.

Also, religion is the direct cause of war, famine, hate crimes, child abuse, spousal abuse, racism, sexism, terrorism etc.? The direct cause? Always? I could go on and on here....what about Stalin? Why did he kill millions of people? It surely wasn't out of fear and paranoia that he would be taken out of power, it was because of religion, right? As for spousal abuse, what about women that abuse men? It happens. You can't act as though that derives from religion. I'm really sorry, but generalizations like religion is the direct cause of the above just drives me nuts.

Originally Posted by satojoko /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I personally find religious posts offensive as we all have our own beliefs. Not all of us are christians. I definitely am not. I have also seen and experienced first hand the hatred, degradation and abuse that is fueled by religions and religious teachings of many kinds, including christianity, in many countries. If it is permissible to post religious posts on these forums, as above, then it must be permissible for me to post that I personally believe that all religions are based on the teachings of human beings, NOT any god, and all are the direct cause of war, famine, hate crimes, child abuse, spousal abuse, racism, sexism, terrorism, etc. My husband was born into Islam, and I was born into a christian type religion. Both of us have spent a great many years researching the origins of those religions AND others, and have come to the conclusion that all religious teachings are a bunch of BS, as are religious texts such as the bible, quraan, etc. Needless to say, he is no longer Muslim and I am definitely not christian. Both of us are a lot happier since making those decisions, as are our children.

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In our household, I do prioritize. My husband does come first. That does not mean my children come second though - it just means that I'm very much aware of the importance of my husband and I being close/happy/connected as far as my children are concerned. I put my husband first out of love for my children.  Children crave and need stability. A happy marriage provides them with that. For me, this is one of the greatest gifts I can give my children. Seeing my husband and I love each other unconditionally and really show that love for each other will only give them more confidence in the love we shower on them as well.

Originally Posted by janetgriselle /img/forum/go_quote.gif

What about the hatred, degradation and abuse toward religious people that is fueled by those that hate religion? If you're so happy about making your decision to reject religion, why couldn't you just laugh at the previous post and move on? I'm just going to tell you, I'm not a Catholic, Muslim, Jew or any of that, but I would never force my religious beliefs on anyone, your anti-religious beliefs sound just as preachy to me as the above person's religious beliefs, get off your high horse.

Also, religion is the direct cause of war, famine, hate crimes, child abuse, spousal abuse, racism, sexism, terrorism etc.? The direct cause? Always? I could go on and on here....what about Stalin? Why did he kill millions of people? It surely wasn't out of fear and paranoia that he would be taken out of power, it was because of religion, right? As for spousal abuse, what about women that abuse men? It happens. You can't act as though that derives from religion. I'm really sorry, but generalizations like religion is the direct cause of the above just drives me nuts.

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Thank you Janet. Well said.

Or.. maybe we could just drop the religious aspect of this conversation?.. Its kind of way off topic.  The preachy biblical lecture was not needed, especially considering you don't even know the OP beliefs and.. You can tell it touched a nerve w/Satojoko because it was something very personal to her.  The atheists/agnotics can go on and on disproving organized religon and the organized religion believers can go on and on quoting verses... Is it really needed?

Oh it touched more than a nerve with me, about that you're right. Like I said, if somebody has the right to start quoting scriptures and other such refuse, I have just as much right to state what I think of religion in general. I NEVER move on from posts which start quoting scriptures and laugh. It simply isn't funny and is no laughing matter. I spent 10 years living where bombs were going off at any given time killing everybody in the vicinity, where mere school children were being beheaded for being the 'wrong' religion. I also spent my childhood years being abused into unconsciousness by family members in the name of GOD and a religion which claimed they were christian. Thanks to religion, I was thrown out of my home when I was 12 years old, and homeless by the age of 13 years old. According to that religion, I was an evil child because I didn't so much like being beaten like a dog on a regular basis and was deemed 'rebellious' because of that. My sister was sexually abused and mollested by people who claimed to be christians and has been dealing with the pain of that abuse for years by smoking crack and self-destructing through anorexia. My friend's house was burned down to the ground by people who claimed to be good muslims, simply because she WASN't muslim. A woman I met years ago was just recently beheaded in Saudi Arabia in line with shariah law (islamic law) for no other reason than she killed her employer who had been abusing her for years. Her real crime was being poor and moving overseas to work to feed her family because the religous problems in her own country were making it impossible for her to make a proper living. And when my husband was working as a journalist, I got to meet religious leaders of different ilk who were arrested for sexually abusing the little kids they were entrusted with to teach them about GOD. None of this is any laughing matter, and I will NOT stay quiet about it when others are posting things like above.

Yes, religious refuse does a lot more than touch a nerve with me. It makes me sick to my stomach and my blood boil. It's interesting that the person who is pissed at me for stating *that* isn't pissed at the person who was vomiting all the scriptures out.

I will never find being in love my  GOD offence because I know who I am in Christ Jesus and he has saved me and I do not care if people dislike me for they do not know me and what I have been through. I may offend people because I come over as sometimes harsh but I love GOD with all my heart and he has given me strength through the most difficult of situations as a child but I am not a victim. I thank my parents for giving me life to see my own children grow from strength the strength with a sound a peaceful mind.

I am not forcing religion onto anyone and I am not into  organised religion, really do not know what that is. We all have  a choice to believe or not that is up to you. I have given you true examples plus I am not religious there is the difference between people who are religious and those who are having a personal relationship with God, a big difference.  You really can not tell me to keep religion out of it because I bet your bottom dollar you would be the first person to call out to God and pray if your child , friend or yourselves are in danger or ill. funny it is always the none believers who cry out for god for justice then blame it on religious fanatics when things in the world go wrong. 

It is always the Christians who are persecuted for what they believe. So we have all for gotten the reason we celebrate christmas... quoting scriptures is needed if your not willing to search out for yourselves then you lack wisdom. We lack because we know not... another scriptural quote..oops! 

For me the husband is always the priority then the children, it makes for a happy family... working at your relationship is an everyday task if your both in agreement to make that commitment, Loving, understanding each others needs, talk, talk, talk and more talk. Listening helps and is the first rule of communication, knowing who you  are and who your partner is. Children want to know that they are in a secure family environment and that takes both parents love, if they have both parents. I am glad that you are all fighters and have your views which is great and you are all lovely women and are truly blessed.  This would be a great script for a movie lol..in fact I am on the case write now ladies see you when I arrive back from Hollywood. Stay blessed x

Originally Posted by janet7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I will never find being in love my  GOD offence because I know who I am in Christ Jesus and he has saved me and I do not care if people dislike me for they do not know me and what I have been through. I may offend people because I come over as sometimes harsh but I love GOD with all my heart and he has given me strength through the most difficult of situations as a child but I am not a victim. I thank my parents for giving me life to see my own children grow from strength the strength with a sound a peaceful mind.

I am not forcing religion onto anyone and I am not into  organised religion, really do not know what that is. We all have  a choice to believe or not that is up to you. I have given you true examples plus I am not religious there is the difference between people who are religious and those who are having a personal relationship with God, a big difference.  You really can not tell me to keep religion out of it because I bet your bottom dollar you would be the first person to call out to God and pray if your child , friend or yourselves are in danger or ill. funny it is always the none believers who cry out for god for justice then blame it on religious fanatics when things in the world go wrong. 

It is always the Christians who are persecuted for what they believe. So we have all for gotten the reason we celebrate christmas... quoting scriptures is needed if your not willing to search out for yourselves then you lack wisdom. We lack because we know not... another scriptural quote..oops! 

For me the husband is always the priority then the children, it makes for a happy family... working at your relationship is an everyday task if your both in agreement to make that commitment, Loving, understanding each others needs, talk, talk, talk and more talk. Listening helps and is the first rule of communication, knowing who you  are and who your partner is. Children want to know that they are in a secure family environment and that takes both parents love, if they have both parents. I am glad that you are all fighters and have your views which is great and you are all lovely women and are truly blessed.  This would be a great script for a movie lol..in fact I am on the case write now ladies see you when I arrive back from Hollywood. Stay blessed x

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Actually.. the real reason for Christmas.. is because the Pagans celebrated the Winter Solstice first.. and when Christian were in "authority" they made all the Christian Holiday at the same time as the Pagan ones.. trying to incorporate.. just like.. Easter w/Jesus dying on the cross and eggs.