Do You Avoid Cosmetics That Are Made in China?

[babycat]

Originally Posted by SnowLeopard /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The Chinese government requires animal testing for cosmetics sold in China. It's incredibly cruel as well as outdated and unnecessary. I would encourage you to google "cosmetic animal testing" to learn about this horrendous practice. There are plenty of cruelty free brands such as Tarte, Too Faced, Stila, Urban Decay, and Nyx just to name a few. I never feel limited by buying only cruelty free beauty products.

This is why I wouldn't buy from brands that sell in China either, because of the animal testing.  But I don't have a problem buying cosmetics that are made in China, it's almost impossible to completely stop buying items that are made in China.  

 

[makeupbyomar]

Originally Posted by Lulubelle107 /img/forum/go_quote.gif


Curious as to the "Made in USA", "Made in Belgium" I'm seeing on brands like Tarte, Bare Escentuals, Estee Lauder, etc.  Are they part of the 1% not made in China or is there some loophole they are using to say "Made in whatever country other than China"?

There are parts of the make-ups in Brands that are made in certain countries. For example most liners are made in France, some materials that make up MAC brushes are from Japan, some of Kryolan's foundation ingredients are made in Germany.

However, the majority of make-up manufacturing is done in China.

 

[LisaLeah]

Originally Posted by SnowLeopard /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The Chinese government requires animal testing for cosmetics sold in China. It's incredibly cruel as well as outdated and unnecessary. I would encourage you to google "cosmetic animal testing" to learn about this horrendous practice. There are plenty of cruelty free brands such as Tarte, Too Faced, Stila, Urban Decay, and Nyx just to name a few. I never feel limited by buying only cruelty free beauty products.

I couldn't agree with you more....China's treatment towards animals (and animal testing policies) is barbaric!

It's also highly unnecessary.

There are soooooooooo many fantastic brands and companies that are cruelty free!

 

[makeupbyomar]

Originally Posted by LisaLeah /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I couldn't agree with you more....China's treatment towards animals (and animal testing policies) is barbaric!

It's also highly unnecessary.

There are soooooooooo many fantastic brands and companies that are cruelty free!

Well now that China is a new global economic superpower, She's going through some growing pains to conform to NA's and EU's Good Manufacturing Practices of how they do business. Heck even their environmental policies are 100 years out-of-date. We Just hope that they fast-track some of their reforms like no animal testing, right now they're trying to figure out how to find other jobs for this particular industry that they are "trying to phase out".

 

[satojoko]

There are parts of the make-ups in Brands that are made in certain countries. For example most liners are made in France, some materials that make up MAC brushes are from Japan, some of Kryolan's foundation ingredients are made in Germany. However, the majority of make-up manufacturing is done in China.

This is precisely why I haven't jumped on the so-called 'cruelty free' bandwagon in the past 20+ years. My husband & I also stopped donating to organizations like PETA after finding out they euthanize close to 80% of the animals they supposedly 'save', as well as after visiting many 'animal shelters' where animals are suffering greatly. There is so much hypocrisy & flat out dishonesty - read LYING - in the skin care & cosmetic industries, as well as the 'animal rights' organizations, that I just assume if I'm using cosmetics, somewhere an animal is paying for it. Even if I'm choosing 'PETA approved' brands. There's no way around it. If a manufactured cosmetic is not being tested on an animal, that doesn't mean that the cosmetic ingredients themselves aren't tested on animals. You'd have to go down the chain of supply and question every company - including supplier - to truly be able to know what you're putting in your face. Even then, there is no guarantee of anything. With the kind of global economy we have now, we have products with their packaging made in one country, the printing sometimes done in another, the product itself made in another, and all the ingredients for that product coming from multiple countries around the planet. Not to mention marketing & promotion. Good luck tracking all that info down, or even finding a company in that chain of supply & manufacturing that will be honest with consumers. That being said, I generally avoid buying natural hair brushes now. There are so many incredible synthetics on the market now that I can easily do without them. I do find it incredibly hypocritical that many people who feel morally superior because they refuse to buy cosmetics from China or who mistakenly believe they are buying strictly 'cruelty free' products still wear leather, eat meat & meat by-products, drink milk, eat cheese, get vaccinated, smoke cigarettes, get their hair colored, use nail polish, use mass manufactured laundry soaps & house cleaning products etc. What about the dyes used in our clothing? The food we buy for our pets? If you are ingesting, using or purchasing any of these products or food items, you are contributing to cruelty towards animals, plain & simple. Not to mention cruelty towards other human beings. Yes, I wish there was some way that I could completely avoid contributing to this sick practice, but I also have to be honest with myself. Unless all manufacturing companies are 100% honest about the products they make, there is no way for any of us to know whether or not animals are suffering as a result of our consumerism. Whether the things we buy are necessities (food, basic clothing) or luxuries (cosmetics, skin care products, designer labels). I did the vegan thing for many years. My kids also ate vegan when they were growing up. At that time, I thought I was doing the right, ethical thing. Now, I honestly look at that time in my life as a period that I was incredibly misinformed, delusional & ignorant regarding this subject. It really was a slap in the face as I did more & more research.

 

[Dalylah]

I try to support companies with ethical practices but the bottom line is, it depends on my body's reaction to their products, how well their products perform, etc. If I wanted to stick to that rule I would have to get rid of half of the items I own including medications, foods, cosmetics, basic toiletries, beauty products, and the list goes on. It's not just cosmetics.

 

[SnowLeopard]

@satojoko I don't think of only buying cruelty free as a "bandwagon", to me it's about making ethical choices as a consumer. I am opposed to cosmetic animal testing, but am not vegan, those are two different things. Consumer pressure is an effective way to send a message to companies that if they test I will not buy their products. It worked when Urban Decay planned to expand into China, their customers promised to leave if they abandoned their CF policy and they listened. Now I'm just one person and I spend between $500-1000 on beauty products per month, not very much, but there is an impact when many people buy CF.

 

[babycat]

Originally Posted by SnowLeopard /img/forum/go_quote.gif
@satojoko I don't think of only buying cruelty free as a "bandwagon", to me it's about making ethical choices as a consumer. I am opposed to cosmetic animal testing, but am not vegan, those are two different things. Consumer pressure is an effective way to send a message to companies that if they test I will not buy their products. It worked when Urban Decay planned to expand into China, their customers promised to leave if they abandoned their CF policy and they listened. Now I'm just one person and I spend between $500-1000 on beauty products per month, not very much, but there is an impact when many people buy CF.

Every little bit helps.  And I understand satojoko's point of view- frustration with what seems like a lost cause, but we have to try to do what we can.  Is it impossible to be completely cruelty free?  Probably, but if we don't try and do what we can, then nothing will ever change.  This is cheesy I know, but the founder of the Body Shop, Anita, said that if you don't believe one little thing can make a difference then you've obviously never been in a tent with a mosquito.  (Or something along those lines)  Either way the idea is the same, we have to try and it's alright for different people to have different ways of trying.

 

[makeupbyomar]

Yup, this is great with a NA or European cultural way of thinking, as we have, (mostly) abolished animal testing, since it began 100+ years ago, it still happens in the medical/pharmacological areas, but to a lesser degree.

However in China and Russia / Ukraine, where they now have to buy.sell, trade with the West, it's a cultural shock to them that animal testing is not ethical. Remember, it has taken us 100 years to slowly abolish animal testing, and it still happens in labs in NA. It will take China, Russia probably just as long to abolish animal testing, who knows? But one thing is for sure: You can't just go into a sovereign country and start dictating cultural changes to them, no matter how unethical it may seem to us. It takes time.

A perfect example is 1989 Russia when they suddenly overnight became a democracy. To this very day, the birth pangs and growing pains are just begining to slowly ebb, but Russia still has a long way to go to find out which form of democracy is right for them. It took the US about 100 years to finally find their Independence from Britian and the practice wasn't perfect until the late 1960's, when America finally got it right.

Sure, we can boycott, but consumerism is a lot more powerful in those two countries, (China, Russian, even India) than moral conscience is, thanks to corporations like McDonalds, Coke, Shell, Apple, Dupont, etc, who have been in these countries before hand, and for a long time promoting the "consumerism model".

And they will start to seek out new buyers elsewhere for their goods. Remember there are billions of people in China and billions of people in India... Two emerging economic super powers with lots of buying and spending power, and do you think that they think or care about the moral or ethical implications of animal testing on products that they will buy??? Heck no, because they look up to, and want to be like us and they want to have the material things that we have here in NA and in the EU, and they will spend whatever it takes to get it, because alas, they can afford it.

While the the US, (with only 350 million people ) are suffering from credit debt, recessions, and military over-spending, China knows the US is tapped out economically, so they will go to countries with most people who have the most disposable income. It makes good business sense from an investor point of view.

Not too worry though, as China owns the US debt, and they are taking a key play from the IMF playbook and running with it... Keep a country on the hook with debt and keep letting them get in deeper with more debt. (Didn't Obama just ask Congress over the New Year for another loan??? To avoid a default in payment...)

Sure, boycotting is the moral thing to do, and it makes some people sleep better at night. But does it make a difference? Some have proven examples that it does make a positive difference in the regional community (half a country or one country). But does boycotting make a difference in the global community? Well if the Arab Spring Uprising and Occupy Movement have anything to say about it, perhaps yes in the short term and no in the long run.

But boycotting products that do animal testing overseas??? Unlikely. But here at home? Sure it works, because it has been mostly been abolished here for the past 40 years.

 

[deactivateduser232015]

It's really hard for me to have this discussion without flinging the big P and R words here (the first one more than the second), lol. But I'll make an attempt to convey my frustrations anyway.

I think that as a consumer who has access to cruelty-free, organic, sustainable, fair-trade etc. products, it is the right thing to do, ethically, but it's also a personal choice. On the other hand, I have to point that having access to these kinds of products (cruelty-free in this situation) is a result of access from your locality -- that is, the shops you can shop at carry these products. I don't even mean this in terms of where you live in terms of city/state/province, but even the fact that many countries outside the west don't have access to these products. It's not even a moral choice for them because that option isn't available.

The problem is, because this forum and many of its members live in this bubble -- in many ways, the same kind of bubble China lives in -- where we're not aware of the other side, and the choices [or lack thereof] that can be made. When I studied abroad for a Health Policy and Global Development program, our group made a trip of Morocco, which I would say is one of the better-off developing countries. We visited several of the best and most high-end institutions in the country and 1) yes, they did animal testing which made me feel ill, but 2) the most research expensive equipment in their best university was $250k -- which was pretty much the cost my college education.

I have a problem with things that people like SnowLeopard   because it's incredibly close-minded. Cruelty-free has been something that has risen out of the developed nations, and it's a good thing. But so has things like fair labour practices/unionisation rights and free speech/freedom of the press, which need I remind us all that China doesn't have yet? And were only developments of the West within the last 100/250 years anyway? That artist who protested animal testing out in a shop window -- she would be lucky if she didn't receive capital punishment for pulling something like that in China. And when citizens don't even have the right to voice their thoughts on subjects like these, how is the government going to change?

So you know what, go ahead and feel morally superior to people who live country were there are more people living on farms without running, sanitized water and proper sewage systems than there are people living in the US and Canada combined. Yes, they are soooo barbaric, let's sit here and judge them with our computers and electricity and drawers full of makeup.

And obviously, since we should punish citizens for the government they can't control, let's witch at Urban Decay until they pull out of China because, you know, it's not like people in China deserve wearing quality makeup. They only deserve the crap that's been tested on animals and the government allows them to have. /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

 

[satojoko]

I am not for a second suggesting that I - or anybody - do nothing to change their own personal consumerism to try & protect animals. Every single one of us can make a difference in this world. If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't be volunteering my time to help others or donating my time & money to fight against human rights violations around the world. As for the Body Shop, take a look at some of their ingredients some time. I stopped using their products many, many years ago because I didn't believe their bogus marketing claims, and started my own company making soaps, skin care products etc. I only very recently picked up a few things from TBS, which did not impress me. They're still full of rubbish chemicals. I AM saying that I can't stand holier-than-thou people who feel morally superior to those of us who are big enough to admit that either, yes, we do buy cosmetics made in China OR those of us who are not falling for yet more marketing scams perpetrated by cosmetics & skin care companies which claim to be 'cruelty free'. I DON'T believe the larger companies who make these claims & I doubt very much that even indie companies who manufacture on a small scale can with 100% certainty claim that the ingredients they use have never been tested on animals. Even take a second to think about the products we use which have been designated 'eye safe' or 'lip safe'. Do you think the ingredients from these products or the products themselves were ingested by human beings to determine these standards? Do you think that these products were dropped into the eyes of someone of our species? Not bloody likely. And LASTLY, having worked in several countries for extended periods of times, I've had the opportunity to visit many manufacturing facilities. MOST of them being European & American companies. These companies have moved their operations overseas because they can get away with a hell of a lot more there, including animal testing, human rights violations & laborers rights violations. They treat the human beings who work for them, producing luxury goods primarily for export, like slaves who work like dogs for a mere pittance while their companies are in those countries, and when they pull out of the countries > leave their former employees unpaid & even further destitute to the tunes of multiple millions of dollars. If you consume/purchase ANY of these products, you are contributing to the suffering of these people who live in such abject poverty which the majority of people globally simply cannot comprehend. Do you buy clothing, shoes, furniture, ANYTHING made in China? How about Bangladesh? Cambodia? Vietnam? Sri Lanka? Pakistan? Indonesia? Go take a look at the labels in everything in your closet. I guarantee you that you do. Every single piece of product you own made in countries such as these represent the direct abuse of those people. Yet those people desperately need jobs due to the political & religious situations in those countries. And believe me, even European/American/Canadian companies in these nations will take every shortcut possible to make an extra penny, paying bribes to government officials in those countries to look the other way when they are using toxic materials in the manufacturing of their products. Products which they sell to *us*. It's part & parcel of doing business there, from the time they set up til the time they shut down because they've found an easier country in which they can rape the environment & the people. None of these issues are ever as simple as they seem to be on the surface. EVER. Some people understand that because they have seen it for themselves or have educated themselves, refusing to simply go along with whatever is the popular cause of the day. The world we live in is far more complicated & intrinsically tied together than most people understand. If you want to start demanding change, and seeing it globally, start demanding it from the companies in your own countries. So that when they DO go overseas to farm out manufacturing jobs, they are aware of what you expect from them as a consumer of their products. That will have a further reaching effect than simply refusing to buy cosmetics 'made in China'. And try to do some traveling & working overseas, visiting villages and getting to know people in their home countries, so that you can better grasp why things are the way they are, the incredible poverty that so many billions of people live in around the world, and how we in our own countries have a direct effect on those situations - both positive & negative.

 

[SnowLeopard]

@kyuu Really? I'm close-minded? You are the one on here judging and feeling superior to people, not me.

 

[makeupbyomar]

I knew this thread was going to be going down the political road... Which is already a contentious word, never mind the topic behind it. But please, let's refrain from the name calling when disagreeing with another members' opinion. Ask why instead. Thanks everyone.

 

[LisaLeah]

Originally Posted by Dalylah /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I try to support companies with ethical practices but the bottom line is, it depends on my body's reaction to their products, how well their products perform, etc. If I wanted to stick to that rule I would have to get rid of half of the items I own including medications, foods, cosmetics, basic toiletries, beauty products, and the list goes on. It's not just cosmetics.

You bring up a very interesting point.

Practically everything is made in China or at least some component or ingredient is.

A friend of mine tried to create a list to see if she could avoid using anything connected to China,

from clothes to toothpaste...and it is pretty much impossible to do.

That includes supporting parent companies like the UniLever's and JandJ's who either do animal testing themselves or sell to China (where further animal testing is done).

Best we can do is support companies with ethical practices (as you said Dalylah) and try to limit the damage our other purchases cause.

Medication is a GREAt example of an unavoidable evil.

This is way too depressing.

Can we talk nail polish now? /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

 

[babycat]

It is depressing.  And honestly, I don't try to buy cruelty free items because it makes me feel like I'm better than other people, I do it because I feel guilty- I know I'm very lucky to even have the luxury of caring about whether or not what I buy fits my ethical standards.  That's a luxury that a lot of people don't have and I realize that.  

 

[Jaly]

I recently decided to avoid makeup products made in china. Even from reputable companies, there is only so much overseeing you can do when the big environment is lets cut corners substitute ingredients to make things cheaper; the baby formula and fake eggs it's just a matter of time when they get caught, in my opinion. In the mean time I stay away until they have improve the country as a whole has instilled better practice and standard.

 

[Missyrocks]

Absolutely. Too much of their stuff has toxic products. I think NYX is from China also. They also try to write PRC so people don't realize- People's Republic of, you guessed it. Makes sense in many ways to avoid their stuff. Wish Tarte & Stila all had products not made there.

 

[Ruthiepoo05]

I know this post is pretty old but I'm always wary of products made in China. Consumers have to understand these companies to whom we entrust our beauty to, are capitalist. By capitalist I mean companies who are in China for out-most profits. The fact that you always hear recalls for China or how the country literally steals intellectual property from these companies, should make you wary. Just make sure you acknowledge how purchasing these products from China could personally affect you and our own US economy!

 

[BetterOffNow]

well hold on.

I work for Aveda. It is a cruelty free company and therefore they refuse to sell their products in China.

However- Aveda is owned by Estee Lauder

 

[ddalgi]

Absolutely. Too much of their stuff has toxic products. I think NYX is from China also. They also try to write PRC so people don't realize- People's Republic of, you guessed it. Makes sense in many ways to avoid their stuff. Wish Tarte & Stila all had products not made there.

NYX is made in Taiwan and the Taiwanese don't consider themselves part of China. They also have different laws. How it applies to animal testing I'm not sure, but Taiwan is NOT China.