I feel horrible buying HE (High End) makeup

[kibbsknowsbest]

you know, i really didn't even think about it that way! I guess you don't have to ALWAYS buy HE products... nice point /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

 

[janetgriselle]

Originally Posted by zadidoll /img/forum/go_quote.gif


No it doesn't. There are so many drug store dupes where you get more product for far less. I love my Naked palette but ELF made a dupe for $5 and it was virtually the same (the lighter colors weren't that great but the dark ones were fantastic). For every high end item you can find a drugs store dupe for it.

Did you know that MAC is owned by Estée Lauder Companies, Inc.which owns Aveda, Clinique, Flirt!, Origins, Smashbox Cosmetics and owned Stila (sold in 2006)? When Christine from Temptalia had the chance to make her own eyeshadow for MAC she verified that the cosmetics made for MAC were made in the same plant as Smashbox and Flirt! so they're using the same ingredients. Flirt is a "low end" brand that's found at Kohl's.

Keep this in mind makeup artists who work in magazines, print and tv - not these Youtube people - use so-called "low end" cosmetics. The Dancing With The Stars makeup team actually uses a lot of drug store items and have posted pictures on their Facebook page showing all the drugstore brands.. I can't recall what it was I was watching the other day but the makeup table they showed had lots of drugstore brands as well. Sure there are hits and misses with drug store lines but there are hits and misses with high end products as well. Even MAC, which most every day women swear by, has lots of hits and misses.

I had no idea that Flirt! was that good. That's really awesome. I always worried about buying low-end products because I thought the quality wasn't as good.

 

[zadidoll]

Originally Posted by janetgriselle /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I had no idea that Flirt! was that good. That's really awesome. I always worried about buying low-end products because I thought the quality wasn't as good.

Sometimes the quality of drug store - not low-end - are better than the designer name (aka high end). When you know who the parent companies are you'll understand that the plant that makes the HE stuff also makes the drugstore stuff. L'Oreal Paris makes Maybelline (drugstore) and of course L'Oreal as well as Giorgio Armani cosmetics, Kiehls, Dermablend and Lancome. All their cosmetics are made in the same factories so while it may have a Lancome name on it and you'd be willing to drop $80 on a foundation it's pretty much the SAME foundation as Maybelline and L'Oreal in terms of the ingredients source. A few differences obviously in colors and texture, as it is between one Maybelline foundation from another, but the ingredients used are both the same. If one line has mica in it then the other line is using the same mica from the same source.

I remember watching How It's Made and in a different company's product the item was made on the same line and the only difference was in how it was packaged - one went into one packaging line with one company's logo and the other went into a different packaging with a different company's logo but it was made exactly the same way. It's pretty much the same with cosmetics but of course the actual formula (recipe) will be different for whatever item it is.

 

[MakeupCritic]

Originally Posted by zadidoll /img/forum/go_quote.gif


Sometimes the quality of drug store - not low-end - are better than the designer name (aka high end). When you know who the parent companies are you'll understand that the plant that makes the HE stuff also makes the drugstore stuff. L'Oreal Paris makes Maybelline (drugstore) and of course L'Oreal as well as Giorgio Armani cosmetics, Kiehls, Dermablend and Lancome. All their cosmetics are made in the same factories so while it may have a Lancome name on it and you'd be willing to drop $80 on a foundation it's pretty much the SAME foundation as Maybelline and L'Oreal in terms of the ingredients source. A few differences obviously in colors and texture, as it is between one Maybelline foundation from another, but the ingredients used are both the same. If one line has mica in it then the other line is using the same mica from the same source.

I remember watching How It's Made and in a different company's product the item was made on the same line and the only difference was in how it was packaged - one went into one packaging line with one company's logo and the other went into a different packaging with a different company's logo but it was made exactly the same way. It's pretty much the same with cosmetics but of course the actual formula (recipe) will be different for whatever item it is.

In a way you're right. Buying an expensive cosmetics we’re almost sure about its high quality but we are sometimes deceived by tricky cosmetics marketers: we  pay for brand name but not products quality BUT...

I don't think that it is correct to claim that products which are made in one factory are the SAME. The main point are cosmetics ingredients. Cosmetics with the different ingredients came be made in the same factory.

For ex.: Lancome is Luxury brand, that's why makers spend more money on ingredients, package and in one word make quality products. That is more such brands cherished their reputation and are tend to produce better products ( I didn't claim that it is always so).

While Maybelline - Cosnumer (mass market) brand. Makers spend less money on ingredients and package because the price of such a product is lower.

All in all, I think it is more likely to find quality ingredients in Lancome cosmetics than in Maybelline despite the fact that both these brand are owned by L'Oréal Group.

However, as I have already said, cosmetic product makers aren't honest nowadays and are tend to deceive costumers. So then you by Luxury cosmetics it is better to look through the ingredients properly and decide is this product better than consumers products or not. I suppose the cosmetic products label is a helpful hint on choosing the good one. 

 

[SassyAuburn]

I will take loose eyeshadows and blushes from privately owned companies over HE or even drugstore brands most of the time. My faves such as LA Minerals and Pure Mineral Elegance have very very pigmented colors which take very little to achieve the look I want at pennies compared to other HE items. I know I have enough mineral eye shadows to will to my grandchildren some day (and I'm only 29+..++) They do take some time to master but once you do? You'll really like them.

 

[zadidoll]

Originally Posted by MakeupCritic /img/forum/go_quote.gif
In a way you're right. Buying an expensive cosmetics we’re almost sure about its high quality but we are sometimes deceived by tricky cosmetics marketers: we  pay for brand name but not products quality BUT...

I don't think that it is correct to claim that products which are made in one factory are the SAME. The main point are cosmetics ingredients. Cosmetics with the different ingredients came be made in the same factory.

For ex.: Lancome is Luxury brand, that's why makers spend more money on ingredients, package and in one word make quality products. That is more such brands cherished their reputation and are tend to produce better products ( I didn't claim that it is always so).

While Maybelline - Cosnumer (mass market) brand. Makers spend less money on ingredients and package because the price of such a product is lower.

All in all, I think it is more likely to find quality ingredients in Lancome cosmetics than in Maybelline despite the fact that both these brand are owned by L'Oréal Group.

However, as I have already said, cosmetic product makers aren't honest nowadays and are tend to deceive costumers. So then you by Luxury cosmetics it is better to look through the ingredients properly and decide is this product better than consumers products or not. I suppose the cosmetic products label is a helpful hint on choosing the good one. 

I didn't say they were the same. I said the products are made with the same ingredients. "All their cosmetics are made in the same factories so while it may have a Lancome name on it and you'd be willing to drop $80 on a foundation it's pretty much the SAME foundation as Maybelline and L'Oreal in terms of the ingredients source. A few differences obviously in colors and texture, as it is between one Maybelline foundation from another, but the ingredients used are both the same." The items I referred to in the How It's Made episode I didn't state were cosmetic products.

 

[sharicimont]

Drugstore makeup is starting to get pretty expensive too (at least where i live).

I only feel guilty buying high end makeup if its something i won't use often (or i just bought it cause it looks pretty).

If it's something you've had your eye on for a long time, then i'd say go for it!

Impulse purchases with high end makeup can really add up.

 

[musingmuse]

I don't invest in high end shadows, like NARS, but their blushes and multiple sticks suit my skin type very well! so i don't mind splurging on it if it works with my skin.

Mind you though... I only purchased 4 NARS products in a lifetime....lasts me for years. lol

I stopped buying drugstore foundation about a year ago...and now finally wear the somewhat pricy stuff that doesn't break me out.

 

[MakeupCritic]

Originally Posted by zadidoll /img/forum/go_quote.gif




I didn't say they were the same. I said the products are made with the same ingredients. "All their cosmetics are made in the same factories so while it may have a Lancome name on it and you'd be willing to drop $80 on a foundation it's pretty much the SAME foundation as Maybelline and L'Oreal in terms of the ingredients source. A few differences obviously in colors and texture, as it is between one Maybelline foundation from another, but the ingredients used are both the same." The items I referred to in the How It's Made episode I didn't state were cosmetic products.

You claim that the cosmetics made in the same factory is made from the same ingredients. So, according you, the quality of all the L'oreal Group cosmetics is the same? Then why still there are such luxury brands as Lancome just because of their different (more expensive) package?

 

[divadoll]

Some products yes.  Check out Lancome Oscillation mascara vs Maybelline Pulse Perfection.  One at $40 and the other at $17.  Only the vibrating wand is slightly different.  Make up consumers are very brand loyal and prone to purchasing at a certain price point.  HE for prestige and good packaging and Mid to Low for affordability.  You won`t really notice unless you use products side by side to realize how similar they are.  

I see these similarities in related retail stores as well.  I live in Canada.  The Zellers, Home Sense and the Bay were related companies (Zellers was purchased by Target).  If you visit all 3 stores looking for a product - lets say a kettle, you will find 3 prices for the same thing.  People would buy the same kettle -1 at a high price point, 1 at mid and the other at discount... Same kettle just marketted differently (at a $10-20 price gap between the 3 stores)  I know because I was looking for a kettle. 

 

[zadidoll]

Originally Posted by MakeupCritic /img/forum/go_quote.gif

You claim that the cosmetics made in the same factory is made from the same ingredients. So, according you, the quality of all the L'oreal Group cosmetics is the same? Then why still there are such luxury brands as Lancome just because of their different (more expensive) package?

Do you think a company is going to, for example, use a different grade of silicone for one type of primer for one line and a different grade for another? When Christine had the chance to work with MAC to make a shadow for them I remember seeing her tweet how she saw them make one item for MAC and another for Smashbox - in the SAME area. I also remember her Tweeting saying she couldn't show the pictures of it at that time. She later posted this:

http://www.temptalia.com/tour-of-mac-cosmetics-production-facilities

We saw an automated line making—what seemed like—an endless supply of MAC Shy Girl Lipstick, along with a manual run of Origins’ lipsticks.

After touring the production facilities, we headed over the Innovation Centre, which is where products are initially created. We had lunch with many of the facilities chemists (there had to been at least twenty at the table!)—the ones behind the science of makeup, really getting down to the nitty-gritty in terms of proportions, ingredients, and how each formula comes together.

For instance, to make a small test batch of eyeshadow, all of the ingredients get added to a mason jar, then blended using a regular ol’ blender (no, seriously—you’d think it would be some fancy schmancy machine, but it’s not!), poured into a small metal pan, and then they have a press to lock it in. It’s like a one-stop-shop for eyeshadow! And to think, I was using denim jeans, a quarter, and brute force to press my own eyeshadow.  Once shades are approved, they go on to bigger and better machines (the real deal).

If you look at the pictures she posted you can see that Origins and MAC are made in the same room. My opinion is that people are paying for the name of the product versus quality of the product. Some companies do use better quality ingredients but when you have a company that makes multiple lines in the same factory the fact is that they're going to share the same quality of ingredients. Now the formulas for each item will differ which is why some products may seem better than others. Again, I refer to Temptalia's own post on making her MAC Jealousy Wakes where they played around with the formula and in some versions it was too this or that. I think she even stated one of the versions made was too chalky. That all boils down not to the ingredients but how much of what is used. THAT is where products differ and that's the actual formula. Almost like making a cake really - you can use the same ingredients in a chocolate cake but different ratios of ingredients will yield a different chocolate cake.

 

[MakeupByMe]

Ive tried M.A.C , ORigins & este companies & regardless if they All have the same ingredients They all do not work the same & I feel better buying m.ac over origins MU & better buying NYX over smashbox MU............................However HE to me is stage MU ben nye kryolan etc  That beats any Low end WET N WILD  N.Y.C, Nyx or cover girl   so You actually do get what you pay for

 

[musingmuse]

I do love affordable eyeshadows from Annabelle, a Canadian brand, sold in drugstores. It's not exactly 'cheap' but  $10-$15 cheaper than most high end.. and it will make a difference if u buy a lot...

 

[MakeupCritic]

Originally Posted by zadidoll /img/forum/go_quote.gif




Do you think a company is going to, for example, use a different grade of silicone for one type of primer for one line and a different grade for another? When Christine had the chance to work with MAC to make a shadow for them I remember seeing her tweet how she saw them make one item for MAC and another for Smashbox - in the SAME area. I also remember her Tweeting saying she couldn't show the pictures of it at that time. She later posted this:

http://www.temptalia.com/tour-of-mac-cosmetics-production-facilities

If you look at the pictures she posted you can see that Origins and MAC are made in the same room. My opinion is that people are paying for the name of the product versus quality of the product. Some companies do use better quality ingredients but when you have a company that makes multiple lines in the same factory the fact is that they're going to share the same quality of ingredients. Now the formulas for each item will differ which is why some products may seem better than others. Again, I refer to Temptalia's own post on making her MAC Jealousy Wakes where they played around with the formula and in some versions it was too this or that. I think she even stated one of the versions made was too chalky. That all boils down not to the ingredients but how much of what is used. THAT is where products differ and that's the actual formula. Almost like making a cake really - you can use the same ingredients in a chocolate cake but different ratios of ingredients will yield a different chocolate cake.

Estée Lauder owned  27 brands (if I not mistaken). These brands include:     

    Bobbi Brown

    Clinique

    Donna Karan

    Estée Lauder

    Flirt!

    Good Skin

    La Mer

    MAC Cosmetics

    Origins

    Smashbox Cosmetic

    Stila

    Tom Ford Beauty and others...

L'Oréal Group is the world's largest cosmetics and beauty company owned more than 30 brands, such as:

    L'Oréal Paris

    Garnier

    Maybelline

    Redken

    Matrix

    Lancôme

    Giorgio Armani

    Vichy

    La Roche

    The Body Shop and others...

So, according you if all these brands produce for example lipstick we will have only TWO lipstick which differ in their ingredients: one from Estee Lauder and other from L'oreal Group. Is it so?

You said that  people are paying for the name of the product versus quality of the product. What is the quality according you?

I think that you contradict yourself you say that people pay only for brand while claim that the formulas of ingredients is differ. Don't you think that quality depend also on the ingredients formula? Why for example one product stay longer than another, why one products shade is richer than others, why one product smells better than another? Because the SAME ingredinets formulas are different.

I suppose that quality of the product depend both on the ingredients which are used and the quantity of these ingredients.

 

[musingmuse]

Oh wow. I had NO IDEA. /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> these people must be dirt rich.

 

[musingmuse]

Estee Lauder owned Donald Trump The Fragrance (discontinued)

LOL!

 

[musingmuse]

This is kind of depressing. Estee and L'Oreal pretty much own everything there is to own. I'm gonna go take my business to etsy.com - support the little guys! lol

 

[llehsal]

You're so right Musingmuse.  I have so little info on who owns what and where.  Thanks a mil Zadi for your info....I'd have to agree with you on this one.  The evidence is shocking.  Oh and to answer the question, yes I do feel bad buying high end makeup.  I have neglected so many other areas of my (beauty) life, like my wardrobe for instance in the name of makeup.....that when I purchase something expensive makeup wise, I'm always like, ummmmm I need a new shoe, or a new blazer :/ should I REALLY be buying this?

 

[zadidoll]

Originally Posted by MakeupCritic /img/forum/go_quote.gif


So, according you if all these brands produce for example lipstick we will have only TWO lipstick which differ in their ingredients: one from Estee Lauder and other from L'oreal Group. Is it so?

You said that  people are paying for the name of the product versus quality of the product. What is the quality according you?

I think that you contradict yourself you say that people pay only for brand while claim that the formulas of ingredients is differ. Don't you think that quality depend also on the ingredients formula? Why for example one product stay longer than another, why one products shade is richer than others, why one product smells better than another? Because the SAME ingredients formulas are different.

I suppose that quality of the product depend both on the ingredients which are used and the quantity of these ingredients.

If you don't get it that's fine but I'm done arguing about it after this. Again look at my cake analogy. You have the ingredients for a chocolate cake but you mix in those ingredients in different amounts and you're going to get a different chocolate cake. Mix it in a different order or in a different way - using a paddle versus a whip - and you'll get a different texture. Makeup in essence is the same thing. The quality of the ingredients are the same but the formula is different. Add more dry ingredients and you're going to have a drier cake, add more wet ingredients and you're going to have a more moist cake and even a cake that's too wet. So those who argue that the ingredients in a so-called high end product is better than a drugstore line I have to disagree with that argument because the ingredients are the same as required by the FDA to be.

Yes, people are paying for the NAME of a product versus the quality. I see so many people who use ONLY Mac because it's the so-called "best". It's not just in the cosmetic industry but ALL fashion. If you were given the choice between a Coach purse or one from Target which would you choose? Most people would choose the Coach purse. Why? Because of the name associated with it not because it's a better purse.

So since this topic is starting to derail, let's get back on the topic about feeling guilty about buying HE stuff. If a person wants to buy it because they like that brand that's fine. If they buy it because they swear by it that's fine as well. It's that person's own money to spend as they see fit. Personally I'll buy and use what I like be it an item from the drugstore like Wet 'n' Wild to a so-called high end item. Just be aware of what you're buying because most so-called high end makeup can be duped with drugstore brands.

 

[Annelle]

Keep in mind that high price doesn't mean "high end" -- I determine high end by quality.  Just because something is overpriced does not mean you'll be getting better quality.