Makeup is oppression.. end of story

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Oh come on it's not just from T.V shows infiltrating my mind - you have people in your country living in the American equivalent of "royalty" and they can afford and flash the hell out of what they buy. We don't have those types in Canada at all - and basically everyone is on par with eachother financially and only a few are upper class. Hence the reason why we don't have many fancy department stores here in Canada - there's just no market for it. Your country is that of extremes, the extremely wealthy and the extremely poor-- and the struggling middle class.
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Ouch, now you're just sounding very discriminatory and judgemental.. very trollish and ignorant to put a whole country on blast like that.
 
Originally Posted by aquaeyes77 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Oh come on it's not just from T.V shows infiltrating my mind - you have people in your country living in the American equivalent of "royalty" and they can afford and flash the hell out of what they buy. We don't have those types in Canada at all - and basically everyone is on par with eachother financially and only a few are upper class. Hence the reason why we don't have many fancy department stores here in Canada - there's just no market for it. Your country is that of extremes, the extremely wealthy and the extremely poor-- and the struggling middle class.
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Of course each country is different. We're spreading into much different territory here. You are now comparing the USA to Canada when this started out as you telling us that makeup makes you feel oppressed. I actually do not think it has anything to do with our two countries being two different countries -- you will find people who feel like that any country you go, the USA included. BUT you came on a makeup site telling us what we love and talk about is a negative piece of our lives and we all practically disagree. That has nothing to do with us being or not being American, in fact there are plenty of non-Americans here.

And while we have 'extreme' wealthy and poor people alike, not everyone in the middle class is struggling. but the money situation in the USA has nothing to do with an opinion of makeup building or breaking one's confidence.

 
Originally Posted by Baberanza /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Of course each country is different. We're spreading into much different territory here. You are now comparing the USA to Canada when this started out as you telling us that makeup makes you feel oppressed. I actually do not think it has anything to do with our two countries being two different countries -- you will find people who feel like that any country you go, the USA included. BUT you came on a makeup site telling us what we love and talk about is a negative piece of our lives and we all practically disagree. That has nothing to do with us being or not being American, in fact there are plenty of non-Americans here.

And while we have 'extreme' wealthy and poor people alike, not everyone in the middle class is struggling. but the money situation in the USA has nothing to do with an opinion of makeup building or breaking one's confidence.
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Exactly. I'm not sure how we ended up where we are. She argues/generalizes essentially that Canada is much more humble and not superficial in comparison to other places (particularly America), yet apparently she was oppressed in to wearing makeup because of societal pressures? I'm not entirely sure what the agenda here is or how the two are even related.

 
Originally Posted by aquaeyes77 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Oh come on it's not just from T.V shows infiltrating my mind - you have people in your country living in the American equivalent of "royalty" and they can afford and flash the hell out of what they buy. We don't have those types in Canada at all - and basically everyone is on par with eachother financially and only a few are upper class. Hence the reason why we don't have many fancy department stores here in Canada - there's just no market for it. Your country is that of extremes, the extremely wealthy and the extremely poor-- and the struggling middle class.
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I am going to have to agree with some of the other ladies and say that you are making generalizations about all of us based on TV or celebrities. I do not live a lavish life. I am a mom of 4 kids, a dachshund and a hub that leads a normal life. I am also a native California girl. Does that mean I have blonde hair, tan skin, and huge boobs? Of course not, I have brown hair, pale skin, and average boobs. Please do not categorize me according to what you have decided is true before getting to know me. Your assumptions about me are wrong. YOU are the one making judgements, YOU are the one criticizing us before you know us.  As someone who has been belittled for their appearance, I would think you would know to not judge a book by it's cover or it's celebrities.

For what it's worth, some of the most outlandish celebrities are Canadian... Justin Bieber, Jim Carrey, William Shatner, etc.

 
Originally Posted by kawaiimeows /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Exactly. I'm not sure how we ended up where we are. She argues/generalizes essentially that Canada is much more humble and not superficial in comparison to other places (particularly America), yet apparently she was oppressed in to wearing makeup because of societal pressures? I'm not entirely sure what the agenda here is or how the two are even related.
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I just feel like the thread starter is moving into entirely different territory that is completely irrelevant to this thread/topic.

 
Originally Posted by Baberanza /img/forum/go_quote.gif


I just feel like the thread starter is moving into entirely different territory that is completely irrelevant to this thread/topic.
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Yup.

 
What? I'm not naive. I know everyone in the U.S doesn't live in extreme opulence as what's portrayed in T.V land. And I don't expect you as a California house wife to look like a "real house wife of Beverly hills".

 
I said "American royalty" - I just meant a Beverly hills/ upper east side of Manhattan type.

 
Canada definitely has it's more expensive areas, just as the US does. I'm not poor by any means, but I could never dream of owning a home in Vancouver any more than one in Beverly Hills.

 
I'm sorry about how you personally feel about the situation, but I'm going to have to call you out on this: that you come here to start this topic and how you have conversed with MuT's members regarding their responses has been somewhat disrespectful.

Not because what you say isn't true -- in your experience, at least, it is -- but way you are sort of forcing your personal experiences upon everyone like it's fact is rubbing me the wrong way. I think we here are all feel for your situation and are happy to discuss how makeup can be oppressive and the societal expectations/social pressures of wearing makeup, but reading through the thread, it mostly just seems like you want everyone else to agree that makeup is oppressive and bow our heads and....what? Stop wearing makeup?

I am also 23 years old. I have suffered from horrible cystic acne for the last 10+ years and have multiple, permanent scars on my face. I have experienced multiple episodes of major depression, have wondered whether or not I'm pretty, have not dated in about 5 years now. I'm practically the poster child for "I don't feel pretty without makeup" and you know what? I don't feel that way. Who knows, maybe I will feel this way in 5, 10, 15 years, maybe in a month, but I don't now.

You're right that I don't know what it's like to be you, and maybe if I had lived your life, I would feel this way. But on the other hand, you haven't lived my life, and despite situations I've been in, I don't feel makeup is oppressive -- so why are you telling me how I should feel? MuT is a discussion board... I'm sure we're happy to debate too,  but you don't really seem like you want to discuss anything with us. Just for us to agree with you.

 
I should have changed the title to "Makeup *can be* oppressive * to some women* - and it can. There are women that spend their entire pay checks on makeup so they'll feel less ugly and that's sad. I don't want everyone to agree with me at all and I'm not throwing down my opinion down your throat and expecting you to swallow, digest it and live by it it. Everyone is so different.

I'm sorry you struggled with cystic acne for such a long time.. I sympathize. I'm guessing like me you were too chicken for Accutane?

 
Originally Posted by aquaeyes77 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I should have changed the title to "Makeup *can be* oppressive * to some women* - and it can. There are women that spend their entire pay checks on makeup so they'll feel less ugly and that's sad. I don't want everyone to agree with me at all and I'm not throwing down my opinion down your throat and expecting you to swallow, digest it and live by it it. Everyone is so different.

I'm sorry you struggled with cystic acne for such a long time.. I sympathize. I'm guessing like me you were too chicken for Accutane?
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uh...? I made an educated decision that I was against the adverse health effects of accutane. Skin health is an important part of overall health, but I would say accutane is perfect example of unnecessary societal pressures to achieve "perfection". I think some people benefit from it greatly for actual health reasons (and even then, I've had friends who really should've tried it who didn't), but when I say I've had "horrible" cystic acne, I meant as in I've never stopped having cystic acne for more than 2-3 months at a time, thus the scarring, not that I constantly have cysts. Being a little vain doesn't hurt unless if you're using something that will actively screw your body up.

I mean I have a lot of noticeable discolouration, very big pock marks, and what I think of as craters in my skin, but really, it's not to the point where I'm like "Hm I think I'd like to risk inflammatory bowel disease to stop it." 

 
I should have changed the title to "Makeup *can be* oppressive * to some women* - and it can. There are women that spend their entire pay checks on makeup so they'll feel less ugly and that's sad. I don't want everyone to agree with me at all and I'm not throwing down my opinion down your throat and expecting you to swallow, digest it and live by it it. Everyone is so different. I'm sorry you struggled with cystic acne for such a long time.. I sympathize. I'm guessing like me you were too chicken for Accutane?
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You know not everyone who blows money on makeup is doing so because they feel absolutely wretched without it and need to make themselves up to face the public, right? Some women do but I feel like you are putting a lot of women into that category and for every woman who is pathetically wrapped up in makeup, there is one who is not. Again, makeup is also a form of art. Blending eyeshadow correctly to me is awesome and I love seeing what others create. That's not dependent at all, that's my hobby.
 
Random aside--I know someone who literally developed Crohn's disease from using Accutane. It really changes your entire life. He was a guy, too--for anyone under the assumption that "teenage boys get zero criticism for their physical appearance". 

Originally Posted by Kyuu /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I mean I have a lot of noticeable discolouration, very big pock marks, and what I think of as craters in my skin, but really, it's not to the point where I'm like "Hm I think I'd like to risk inflammatory bowel disease to stop it." 
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Funny how there's a dipole in feminist logic between "we are in charge of our own appearance, how we choose to present ourselves is therefore part of our identity; strong women come in all guises", and the antithetical "fashion and beauty products are manufactured by men to oppress women, those who give in are inherently subordinate". imo makeup, as with anything, only becomes a problem when it disrupts and negatively impacts your quality of life. I'm 22; I only started wearing makeup on a daily basis a few years ago, but I don't think 10 minutes a day has destroyed my life or self confidence. It's a hobby, that's why I'm on this site--I like makeup as I like all things aesthetically pleasing.

I'm glad you made the personal choice not to wear makeup, aquaeyes. Though, to play devil's advocate: with your heavy emphasis on skincare, how is that any less oppressive than makeup, when the end result is a beautified physical appearance--your 'porcelain skin'? Considering how the skincare industry has impacted--oh, I don't know, aging, the whole feminism argument against makeup is rendered null. The remaining difference is a fairly superficial one that detracts from the whole point--what some perceive as 'fake' vs. 'real'. And I won't get into that.

 
How many famous actors are from Canada?? Oh right quite a few.. So your saying they are wealthy as you say?? They're still Canadian citizens aren't they? Have you ever been to the USA? You can't generalize a whole country the way you are!

 
I am glad to see you revised your initial argument. You're initial statement was full of fallacies. I agree that if a woman is wearing makeup because she feels she has to, will be judged if she doesn't, etc., it can feel oppressive. However, you are on a board filled with women that love makeup. I think you would have a hard time finding someone on a beauty specific board that agrees with your stance. As for your generalizations about America.....well, they are just silly. Areas like Beverly Hills and Manhatten are in the minority. Most of us are your average middle class people. If you make are going to make statements based on hasty generalizations, I suggest you do a little more research first.

 
Urm... no! I am not trolling. Are you one of these people that presumes every time someone has a controversial unpopular opinion on something they're trolling? how unoriginal of you. I revised my original post - what I meant is makeup can be oppressive to some women if they're wearing it for the wrong reasons. There are makeup enthusiasts, makeup artists and women that love to experiment with color - and then there are women that are so terribly insecure they won't leave the house without full foundation on because they think people will think "Less" of them.

 
Originally Posted by aquaeyes77 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Urm... no! I am not trolling. Are you one of these people that presumes every time someone has a controversial unpopular opinion on something they're trolling? how unoriginal of you. I revised my original post - what I meant is makeup can be oppressive to some women if they're wearing it for the wrong reasons. There are makeup enthusiasts, makeup artists and women that love to experiment with color - and then there are women that are so terribly insecure they won't leave the house without full foundation on because they think people will think "Less" of them.
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hahahaha. not quite. but the fact that you put said opinion on a site about loving makeup doesn't seem very smart. and your opinion is your opinion and I have more respect for that than you can imagine. I'm just not going to psychoanalyze your "makeup is opression" theory. my bad makeup **can be** opressive, although, even with that explanation I'm still not seeing it as opressive.

 
Sorry to hear that you feel like makeup can be oppressive, but you will only be liberated from the fear of appearing imperfect when you learn to love yourself the way you are :) /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> I think I'm beautiful whether I'm wearing makeup or not, and the colors on my face merely reflect my current mood.

 

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