Gay Marriage

Makeuptalk.com forums

Help Support Makeuptalk.com forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I dunno....:icon_roll

One one hand, I would love to see equality for all people. Gay partners should have access to family medical and insurance just like hetero couples. There would have to be restrictions, of course, to those that are married or legally partnered. This would give extra financial security and a sense of legal permanence that is lacking in gay couples. I really don't give a rat's butt if this allows for loopholes and coverage etc going to people who aren't traditionally entitled. They're paying for coverage so let them have it. And it's not like straight couples have never married for just this reason.

On the other hand...

Marriage is rooted in religion and so far I don't see the major heads of churches saying 'cool beans' to homosexuality. Why should those religious leaders compromise their moral convictions on gay marriage because of the trends in societal moral climate? They need to make changes to their doctrines based on the foundation of their teachings and not because of what the masses demand. This is far-fetched, but could you imagine if NAMBLA caught on like wildfire and eventually the majority of men believe that gay love with minor boys is okay? Should the church bend to that new moral standard and condone it too? Why push to change the church when voters can pressure the government to create laws and redefine our rights. A civil contract is much more logical than a holy union. And if your church's teachings don't match your values, then move on and create a new church.

Just my .02. :icon_smil

 
They shouldn't, if they're against it, ok, don't allow it. But civil marriage is fine by me.

(I wouldn't even understand a gay person that wanted to get married in church...)

 
Yeah, but marriage is only "rooted in religion" because it's perceived that way. People were getting married way before religion. And even in mostly non-religious countries, like the Eastern ones (China, etc) marriage is just a union to be celebrated.

Marriage didn't happen because of religion. Marriage was made a religion thing.

 
Agree Totally....

You know back in the day... I mean wayyyyyyyyyyyy back when according to the bible Jesus was sent to us and he died for our sins...he also died for his and our beliefs...

The point I am trying to make is that He was sent for a reason, because the "church" in that time was wrong in its teaching and he preached differently then what the priests at that time were preaching...so who's to say what is "SUPPOSE" to be....Now I am not saying that the catholic church is teaching false information I am just saying that it should not be the EXACT guidelines to go by because who knows if the teaching has been taken out of text throughout the many many years....Or even lost in translation

Personally I find it hard to follow a religion where the pope sits in a throne and lives in a mansion with a 24 karat roof ... I find that to be selfish and hypocritical...Do you know how many Starving countries can have food for years to come if that roof was taken and melted ... but then again in the bible it teaches that we should not be Hypocritical and love thy neighbor.... The only being I feel should sit on a throne Is Jesus and God...

Now I know I am getting a little off topic and I am sorry to do so...I just felt for some reason to share my thoughts and I at no moment want to impose my beliefs on anyone and if anyone has felt that way i am sorry...

This was all stated because it is related to the subject at hand...How do we really know that marriage is only to be between a man and a woman...what because of a bible that was written Many many years after jesus's death.... I believe that GOD DOES NOT MAKE MISTAKES.... He has destinys for all....

Again Sorry because I know this is a sensitive/touchy subject....

 
My opinion is this... if it makes you happy and you aren't hurting yourself (or others) then by all means do what you want.

 
i could care less either way, but you don't see straight people going around advertising they're straight. THAT'S where i draw the line. be gay, but don't advertise yourself to the world.

 
I agree with you totally...but we have something they dont and that is acceptance...think about it...it is pure logic...if they were accepted and treated normally like we were....there would be no need to advistise it...because they would be in the norm......

 
I'm not going to voice my opinion (b/c it's early to think), but I would like to say MuT Rocks!!!! Nowhere else, but here, could you openly discuss such a matter without bashing, flaming or nonsense bickering. You are all simply stating your opinion and agreeing to disagree. How wonderful! What wonderful friends we've made here at MuT!

 
ditto!!

things have gone ok so far, but just as a reminder, please keep it civil!

 
(I can't seem to unbold this 1st paragraph - Sorry)

I thought I would throw a little history into the thread. I for one, think Gay Marriage is fine and that gay couples should have the same rights as heterosexual couples.

I think people should evolve with the times and we as a society can grow. If we didn't grow and evolve with the times, we (women) would be PROPERTY as you will see in the history below. That kinda makes you think.



History of Marriage

Most ancient societies needed a secure environment for the perpetuation of the species,a system of rules to handle the granting of property rights, and the protection of bloodlines. The institution of marriage handled these needs. For instance, ancient Hebrew law required a man to become the husband of a deceased brother's widow.

Different periods of time and different cultures have very different histories when it comes to women. Ancient Egypt, in theory, gave women equal rights, but it wasn't always practiced. Medieval women faced dual responsibilities to religion and marriage.

Throughout history, and even today, families arranged marriages for couples. The people involved didn't and don't have much to say about the decision. Most couples didn't marry because they were in love but for economic liasons.

Some marriages were by proxy, some involved a dowry (bride's family giving money or presents to the groom or his family), some required a bride price (the groom or his family giving money or a present to the bride's family), few had any sort of courtship or dating, but most had traditions.

The notion of marriage as a sacrament and not just a contract can be traced St. Paul who compared the relationship of a husband and wife to that of Christ and his church (Eph. v, 23-32).

Joseph Campbell, in the Power of Myth, mentions that the Twelfth century troubadours were the first ones who thought of courtly love in the same way we do now. The whole notion of romance apparently didn't exist until medieval times, and the troubadours.

The statement of Pope Nicholas I in which he declared in 866, "If the consent be lacking in a marriage, all other celebrations, even should the union be consummated, are rendered void", shows the importance of a couple's consent to marriage. It has remained an important part of church teaching through the years.

There appeared to be many marriages taking place without witness or ceremony in the 1500's. The Council of Trent was so disturbed by this, that they decreed in 1563 that marriages should be celebrated in the presence of a priest and at least two witnesses. Marriage took on a new role of saving men and women from being sinful, and of procreation. Love wasn't a necessary ingredient for marriage during this era.

Years later, the Puritans viewed marriage as a very blessed relationship that gave marital partners an opportunity to not only love, but also to forgive.

Many people hold the view that regardless of how people enter into matrimony, marriage is a bond between two people that involves responsibility and legalities, as well as commitment and challenge. That concept of marriage hasn't changed through the ages.

The institution of marriage has had a long and sordid history. Not always referred to as marriage, which is a word from the 14th century French (marier) to marry, this sacred state had slipped through history under many guises and forms.

Monogamy – describes a union of male and female or (today) same sex couples, so long as the partners are only sleeping with each other. Until only recently in the long history of humankind, marriages were arranged according to lineage and economics. Kingdoms united through members of each royal family. Countries aligned with arranged partnerships. Bloodlines blended throughout history, in the belief that it made them more royal or enduring. Arranged marriages in tight royal bloodlines, often came about because of the sometimes humiliating and always detrimental outcome of too much inbreeding in a family line. Try as they might, attempting to keep the blood pure was not conducive to strong rule.

Polygamy – is the practice of one man or woman with several spouses of the opposite sex. Often, the need for this type of arrangement came from times of war, plague or other disaster. Women left with children and no husband to provide for them were taken as second wives to a brother-in-law or other adequate provider. The idea of multiple spouses as a show of love was virtually unheard of.

Polyamory – is a multiple-partnered marriage whereby the partners get together out of love. Polyamory was sometimes practiced in the Polynesian Islands prior to missionaries and their stodgy ideas of Christian marriage. In these areas, the expression of sex and desire was a gift given by the gods to ensure a strong race. Just as much of the parenting was done in a communal type atmosphere with many mothers and many fathers, so too, were the relations that developed among members of the village. Partnering with one person was entirely foreign to this area, as with many areas of the world.

Common-Law – is the relationship of a couple without legal ceremony or license.

For most of mankind’s “civilized†history, a woman was considered a possession of first her father and then her lawful husband. She had little voice in where they lived, what her husband did and her own duties. She (post-Christianity) must devote herself to her husband, family and faith. Aside from that, her time was her own.

There were exceptions. Many countries, prior to Christianity or missionary outreach, believed the women to be the spiritual advisors, warriors on equal footing and often times judge and jury. Women’s councils were commonplace, for everything from healing and midwifery to dream interpretation for the community.

The ancient world had practices that set women up as trophies of war, competition and feats of strength or bravery. Like a gold statue, a chariot, a horse, farmland or other prize, officers and victors were awarded wives into the bargain. Armies would often return home with women as booty from a raid or battle won. These women were either enslaved or married off to the soldier who brought her home.

Monogamous marriages rose to their peak during the Victorian period in British history. The Puritans moved marriage to a point where love counted and delighting in the state of marriage became commonplace, yet extremely committed. The Victorian period dragged marriage into the closet. Sex was something embarrassing and improper with a quiet understanding that married couples engaged in marital relations, without pleasure and as duty and God dictated.

Until as recently as twenty years ago, in some areas of North America women still needed a husband’s signature to obtain a credit card or mortgage. As in ancient Rome, women went shopping in the marketplace, but they carried no money. They had a manservant to carry it for them. Things have certainly changed. You don’t see many manservants in the local supermarket.

 
I don't have a problem with Civil Unions, which are legal joinings. I knew someone who's partner died of AIDS and he nursed that man for years when he was very very ill. He had no right to time off work to plan and go to the funeral (our boss was nice enough to let him use another type of leave). He also had trouble sorting out the estate with the family members, they tried to take everything (I guess there was no will). If they would have been allowed to have a Civil Union, then none of this would have happened.

Marriage is a different story. Marriage to me is a religious union and I feel if we aren't carefull with wording it will be only a matter of time before someone tries to force this upon a church. I think that's wrong.

People don't marry just to make babies, I've been married 7 years and we don't have children by choice.

Edit: There has to be some joining between church and state or else someone would start a religion that allows them to have sex with children or animals or whatever.

 
I think there is a distinct difference between two consenting adults and an adult and child/animal. It always makes me laugh when this gets thrown in when discussing this topic.

I like the history article that was posted. Marriage wasn't always what it is now.

And 'god' does make mistakes. Did any of you see those pictures that were posted of disastrous naughty body parts. Those people did not choose that. And are they men or women? gay or straight? do they deserve the same rights as anyone else or not?

What about the hermaphrodites whos sex was decided for them at birth? The doctors decide that it's easier to clip of the penis and make them a girl. But what about the person on the inside? How many of those girls are really boys? Yet they have been raised all their lives as girls. Have a girl name.... It all gets really messy when you look at the realities of life. Life is messy and god makes mistakes. why punish those who have probably been punished enough all ready?

I don't know the answers. Really I just have a lot of questions *shrug*

 
I still disagree with that.. I believe everything that god does is for a reason...See you might see it as a mistake but in my eyes and my philosophy of god does not make mistakes is what we see as mistakes by god are actually done on purpose for that individual person...Now why it is done can range on different levels..such as a life lesson, Learning how to accept and love one defects...to be able to overlook the physical and love the emotional.....Again I still stick by my " God does not make any mistake" He does everything for a reason and the purpose behind his decisions can range in the millions and is not for me to figure out..just Believe that everything is done for the greater good of everyones destinys...

 
oh, i wasn't picking out what you said Jasmine. Honestly I don't believe in god. I was just trying to say that things aren't perfect. people aren't perfect. people are born they way they are. I believe that people are born gay. But I also believe some people choose to be gay.

I'm sorry if you thought I was commenting on your beliefs, because I wasn't. :icon_love

 
i'm with ya girl. god doesnt make mistakes. theres a lot of things that happen that we'll never understand so i'll make sure to ask when i get to heaven.

 
Not surprisingly, i think the social fabric of the country will take a downhill turn. Imagine what happens to our kids when they can't differentiate whats acceptable and whats not.

 
i agree with you on that part.theres a lot of people who don't believe in god & all i can say to you is i pray for you.you probably won't understand or believe why even if i told you.

 
Oh I want to apologize for assuming it was against me....Sorry :) /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

I agree with you 100 percent on the fact that gay/lesbian people are born that way and for some odd reason some choose to be gay/lesbian to be " In Style or Down"...... Making a mockery of that culture....

 
Back
Top