Words having negative culture connotations?

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Quote: Originally Posted by kawaiimeows /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
I personally have always felt that sports team names such as this are in poor taste. For me this article pretty much sums up how aburd the notion is.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/most-offensive-team-names,34170/

Also redskin has history of being considered offensive, and i think to keep it the way it is because a ~*sports team~* claimed it is ridiculous.
Well, I don't think sports teams deserve the power they receive just by being beloved by the masses, true. I guess I could see myself following tennis someday, but I don't get the love for team sports. If I watched tennis, I'd prefer one on one.

 
Quote: Originally Posted by Heather Hicks /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  Well, I don't think sports teams deserve the power they receive just by being beloved by the masses, true. I guess I could see myself following tennis someday, but I don't get the love for team sports. If I watched tennis, I'd prefer one on one.
living in the south where college football is so popular, i understand why going to games can be considered fun, or considered a social event. but i know people who refuse to speak to people for wearing the shirt of another team, or speak as if they own or play on the team by saying "we didn't do this, we did that" or just come up with the rudest things to say on "gameday", it's so nauseating.

mind you, most of this is happening on facebook, at times i want to be like go out and DO something, jeeze.

 
Quote: Originally Posted by kawaiimeows /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
I personally have always felt that sports team names such as this are in poor taste. For me this article pretty much sums up how aburd the notion is.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/most-offensive-team-names,34170/

Also redskin has history of being considered offensive, and i think to keep it the way it is because a ~*sports team~* claimed it is ridiculous.
Btw, I looked at the onion post, and sadly, I don't understand most of them. At least, not how the place is linked to the term. And for some, Des Moines especially, I really don't get the reference. Maybe that also partly explains my reaction. I tend to be lost in my own world most of the time. Grad school helped me lose lots of my naivety about the ways of the world, but I guess I have some of it left. But sports teams, geography, and some of the slurs themselves--I don't know many of them. The only one I got fully was Birmingham. I am glad my education exposed me to things I otherwise wouldn't have read--Martin Luther King's writings, WEB DuBois, etc. At the time, I only wanted to read fiction as that is my passion, but now, I've come to appreciate the background in history reading non-fiction provided.

 
Quote: Originally Posted by kawaiimeows /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  living in the south where college football is so popular, i understand why going to games can be considered fun, or considered a social event. but i know people who refuse to speak to people for wearing the shirt of another team, or speak as if they own or play on the team by saying "we didn't do this, we did that" or just come up with the rudest things to say on "gameday", it's so nauseating.

mind you, most of this is happening on facebook, at times i want to be like go out and DO something, jeeze.
Yeah, you are a transplant, aren't you? I mean, you moved to Macon but didn't grow up in the south, right? I am southern born and bred and there are sooooo many ways I am unlike the stereotypical southerner. Sports is just one of those ways. I just don't get it.

We lived briefly in Alabama and my husband's boss was a big fan of Auburn where he graduated. They were playing Univ of Alabama and the people in the office put Alabama gear on a blow up doll (ignoring the implications of that and any women that might have been offended). They put the doll in his chair and put a banner up behind it. My husband offered to play the Alabama fight song when he walked in. Paul laughed about how funny it was. I just shrugged. Seems so silly to me. Oh, and yes, I guess I understand the social aspects, but I can't stand crowds, so even if I liked sports I wouldn't go in person. Crowds just smother me and make me feel trapped and overexposed.

 
Quote: Originally Posted by Heather Hicks /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
I honestly don't think pretty much anyone is in a position where they never have to worry about being called something they find offensive. Yes, Caucasians are in position that almost all of them don't have to worry about racial slurs specifically. Even the word cracker isn't offensive to me as a white person. Not that I've heard it used outside of the Jeffersons on tv either. But, everyone has their own traits that bother them. Some people hate their body for no reason and get an eating disorder. Just using the wrong word to them--skinny, chubby, etc.--could be offensive to them but taken in stride by others. I am fat. In fact, I'm obese. I used to be more sensitive about it than I am today. Today I just worry about my health. But if someone went out of their way to offend me with it, I would probably be offended simply because they were trying to do that. When a word is used innocently, no offense should be taken. Likewise, when a word is said to someone who is not in the group the word offends, I don't understand why everyone gets so upset about that. I know you clearly disagree, and passionately so. I'm not trying to make you mad, but just to explain my thinking. That's all.

So how do you know that someone isn't in the group it offends?  How do you know that my ancestors didn't clearly lie and change their name when they came to the US because they did not want to carry the stigma of an Eastern European name, and then they spent so much time very carefully hiding their history to avoid persecution here in the good old US of A that we have no idea where our family actually came from other than a vague "well, they came to the US through France, and before that, they were somewhere in Eastern Europe, and they were in Romania at some point, but we don't about their specific locations before the US because that information is 'lost', and the family that we were aware of that didn't come to the US was killed during the early part of the 20th century, so there's no one there to ask any more"?  Because yeah.  You don't.  Even when you know someone, you might not *know* their story.  It didn't occur to my aunt (on my mom's side of the family) that my dad's side was anything other than strictly British (because that history was "lost") until I asked her about a month ago if she had ever met my grandfather (in the context of "Uh, Mary, do you *really* think that my dad's ancestors landed in the US with this generic British surname?"  Answer:  Hell, no), and that's when she realized that, whoa, yeah, there's some Slavic blood going on over here, and my parents started dating in something like 1966, so it's clearly not something that is always glaringly obvious even when you meet someone live and in person and *have your sister marry into their family and have kids with that bloodline*.  *I* didn't piece things together until really recently when I started wondering why family history just kind of ended at a certain point in a certain part of my family tree.  

So that's my history -- that I never intended to share because I didn't really think it would be necessary -- behind why I'm personally offended by this particular word.  And on the other side of the family (the aforementioned aunt's side), we have Irish Travellers, who have a very similar thing going on.  You have *no idea* who you're talking to on the internet or whether they might say, "Hey, can we not use this word because I can feel a literal stab at my heart every time you use it because it comes from a derogatory reference to my ancestors who were killed just because of their ethnic identity because everyone considered them to be subhuman con men and crooks?" -- or if they might just say, "Hey, can we not use this word because it's a hurtful negative word?" and skip having to defend why they are upset.

(Also, do you know where the word "cracker" comes from?  It's from the slave drivers cracking whips.  It doesn't really have the same powerfully negative connotations as pretty much every other racial epithet I can think of.)  

And on the topic of raising awareness:  Uh, what exactly do you expect?  Here's a starting point:  Hey, let's not use this word because this is where it comes from.  It's a tiny thing, but it's apparently my thing this weekend.

 
Quote: Originally Posted by meaganola /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
So how do you know that someone isn't in the group it offends?  How do you know that my ancestors didn't clearly lie and change their name when they came to the US because they did not want to carry the stigma of an Eastern European name, and then they spent so much time very carefully hiding their history to avoid persecution here in the good old US of A that we have no idea where our family actually came from other than a vague "well, they came to the US through France, and before that, they were somewhere in Eastern Europe, and they were in Romania at some point, but we don't about their specific locations before the US because that information is 'lost', and the family that we were aware of that didn't come to the US was killed during the early part of the 20th century, so there's no one there to ask any more"?  Because yeah.  You don't.  Even when you know someone, you might not *know* their story.  It didn't occur to my aunt (on my mom's side of the family) that my dad's side was anything other than strictly British (because that history was "lost") until I asked her about a month ago if she had ever met my grandfather (in the context of "Uh, Mary, do you *really* think that my dad's ancestors landed in the US with this generic British surname?"  Answer:  Hell, no), and that's when she realized that, whoa, yeah, there's some Slavic blood going on over here, and my parents started dating in something like 1966, so it's clearly not something that is always glaringly obvious even when you meet someone live and in person and *have your sister marry into their family and have kids with that bloodline*.  *I* didn't piece things together until really recently when I started wondering why family history just kind of ended at a certain point in a certain part of my family tree.  
Your story is very similar to mine. One of my aunts did a lot of digging through our family history and discovered that my great grandparents actually slightly altered their last name to hide being from Eastern Europe and lied about what country they were from. I can't remember how my aunt went about finding this out and I can't remember what country it was, but it definitely makes me want to go back and do some research.

Quote: Originally Posted by Heather Hicks /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  Yeah, you are a transplant, aren't you? I mean, you moved to Macon but didn't grow up in the south, right? I am southern born and bred and there are sooooo many ways I am unlike the stereotypical southerner. Sports is just one of those ways. I just don't get it.

We lived briefly in Alabama and my husband's boss was a big fan of Auburn where he graduated. They were playing Univ of Alabama and the people in the office put Alabama gear on a blow up doll (ignoring the implications of that and any women that might have been offended). They put the doll in his chair and put a banner up behind it. My husband offered to play the Alabama fight song when he walked in. Paul laughed about how funny it was. I just shrugged. Seems so silly to me. Oh, and yes, I guess I understand the social aspects, but I can't stand crowds, so even if I liked sports I wouldn't go in person. Crowds just smother me and make me feel trapped and overexposed.
Grew up in South Carolina for the majority of my life, but I lived on the coast where most people just don't live for sports because well...we have the beach to go to all the time hahahah. To make matters worse, I went to an undergrad that didn't have a football team, so moving to Macon right out of college was definitely a culture shock for me.

 
Does anyone remember how they were taught how to spell arithmetic? A red Indian thought he might eat tobacco in church. Of course it's now considered racist and is highly offensive but back in the 1980s that's how kids were taught to spell arithmetic.

Another one, that's offensive to me, is "don't assume anything because you make an ass out of u and me." I had an abusive 4th grade teacher would would cuss AND hit kids for any little reason. It was his favorite saying.

To some Latino/Latina is offensive and the more appropriate term is Hispanic while to others Hispanic is offensive while Latino/Latina is correct. 

There are a lot of Yiddish words that are used today that people don't realize are, well, slurs. I'm blanking on the show or what network it was one (History, History 2, Science, or something like that) in which they went over the origins of certain words. Really interesting show.

 
Quote: Originally Posted by meaganola /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
So how do you know that someone isn't in the group it offends?  How do you know that my ancestors didn't clearly lie and change their name when they came to the US because they did not want to carry the stigma of an Eastern European name, and then they spent so much time very carefully hiding their history to avoid persecution here in the good old US of A that we have no idea where our family actually came from other than a vague "well, they came to the US through France, and before that, they were somewhere in Eastern Europe, and they were in Romania at some point, but we don't about their specific locations before the US because that information is 'lost', and the family that we were aware of that didn't come to the US was killed during the early part of the 20th century, so there's no one there to ask any more"?  Because yeah.  You don't.  Even when you know someone, you might not *know* their story.  It didn't occur to my aunt (on my mom's side of the family) that my dad's side was anything other than strictly British (because that history was "lost") until I asked her about a month ago if she had ever met my grandfather (in the context of "Uh, Mary, do you *really* think that my dad's ancestors landed in the US with this generic British surname?"  Answer:  Hell, no), and that's when she realized that, whoa, yeah, there's some Slavic blood going on over here, and my parents started dating in something like 1966, so it's clearly not something that is always glaringly obvious even when you meet someone live and in person and *have your sister marry into their family and have kids with that bloodline*.  *I* didn't piece things together until really recently when I started wondering why family history just kind of ended at a certain point in a certain part of my family tree.  

So that's my history -- that I never intended to share because I didn't really think it would be necessary -- behind why I'm personally offended by this particular word.  And on the other side of the family (the aforementioned aunt's side), we have Irish Travellers, who have a very similar thing going on.  You have *no idea* who you're talking to on the internet or whether they might say, "Hey, can we not use this word because I can feel a literal stab at my heart every time you use it because it comes from a derogatory reference to my ancestors who were killed just because of their ethnic identity because everyone considered them to be subhuman con men and crooks?" -- or if they might just say, "Hey, can we not use this word because it's a hurtful negative word?" and skip having to defend why they are upset.

(Also, do you know where the word "cracker" comes from?  It's from the slave drivers cracking whips.  It doesn't really have the same powerfully negative connotations as pretty much every other racial epithet I can think of.)  

And on the topic of raising awareness:  Uh, what exactly do you expect?  Here's a starting point:  Hey, let's not use this word because this is where it comes from.  It's a tiny thing, but it's apparently my thing this weekend.
I didn't follow much of what you said in the first paragraph. I don't know a lot about Slavic history and everything else you mentioned. My point actually was that if the person speaks up about it and claims a link, then they have the power to say something about it. Clearly you do. I truly am sorry that I made you feel like you had to come out and say a bunch of stuff you didn't feel comfortable revealing, but I would've understood better if you had just said "I do have some Gypsie ties." I used the word Gypsie because I literally don't know what other word to use--is Slavic better? I just have no background knowledge in this area. I wasn't trying to hurt you, but I was arguing a point which, until now, I thought was just a philosophical discussion--like a subject up for debate.

No, I didn't know of cracker's origin, but actually that says a lot about what I was saying--because the word was directed to the race that held the power, no one pays attention to it. It is not treated as a racial slur because it doesn't hurt Caucasians, by and large. (Though, knowing about the origin of it, perhaps it should as it harkens back to being a slave owner). Yes, you did teach me a bit about Slavic ancestry, but not enough that I feel able to really connect things. I would still have to learn more to fully understand things. And I am a person who used to avoid history like the plague. I thought learning his-story only taught you what people (meaning men) thought was important to write down--wars, conquests, political coups, etc. I always paid more attention to fictional or non-fictional accounts that were related to a specific period of time and written during the time itself. I felt they had a better chance to explain what day to day life was like, especially when it came to women in older times. I think that's part of why I have a tendency to treat things as a detached subject until someone comes out and hits me over the head with the fact it is personal to them. I can be quite dense and slow to take a hint. So yes, I guess without realizing it I did assume you were not directly affected by what I was saying as I have never encountered this specific situation in my life. Sorry.

 
Quote: Originally Posted by kawaiimeows /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Grew up in South Carolina for the majority of my life, but I lived on the coast where most people just don't live for sports because well...we have the beach to go to all the time hahahah. To make matters worse, I went to an undergrad that didn't have a football team, so moving to Macon right out of college was definitely a culture shock for me.
Yeah, my undergrad had no football team. They may be trying to get one, as they want to make the school into something it is not, but I'm pretty sure they didn't have one when I went there. Pretty funny then how we are both southern but missed out on the sports fever (specifically, college football) which is a big thing in the south. 

 
I didn't follow much of what you said in the first paragraph. I don't know a lot about Slavic history and everything else you mentioned. My point actually was that if the person speaks up about it and claims a link, then they have the power to say something about it. Clearly you do. I truly am sorry that I made you feel like you had to come out and say a bunch of stuff you didn't feel comfortable revealing, but I would've understood better if you had just said "I do have some Gypsie ties." I used the word Gypsie because I literally don't know what other word to use--is Slavic better? I just have no background knowledge in this area. I wasn't trying to hurt you, but I was arguing a point which, until now, I thought was just a philosophical discussion--like a subject up for debate. No, I didn't know of cracker's origin, but actually that says a lot about what I was saying--because the word was directed to the race that held the power, no one pays attention to it. It is not treated as a racial slur because it doesn't hurt Caucasians, by and large. (Though, knowing about the origin of it, perhaps it should as it harkens back to being a slave owner). Yes, you did teach me a bit about Slavic ancestry, but not enough that I feel able to really connect things. I would still have to learn more to fully understand things. And I am a person who used to avoid history like the plague. I thought learning his-story only taught you what people (meaning men) thought was important to write down--wars, conquests, political coups, etc. I always paid more attention to fictional or non-fictional accounts that were related to a specific period of time and written during the time itself. I felt they had a better chance to explain what day to day life was like, especially when it came to women in older times. I think that's part of why I have a tendency to treat things as a detached subject until someone comes out and hits me over the head with the fact it is personal to them. I can be quite dense and slow to take a hint. So yes, I guess without realizing it I did assume you were not directly affected by what I was saying as I have never encountered this specific situation in my life. Sorry.
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The correct word would be Romani. Take the opportunity to educate yourself. Here is just a little background information. http://www.culturalsurvival.org/publications/cultural-survival-quarterly/albania/persecution-and-politicization-roma-gypsies-eastern
 
Quote: Originally Posted by zadidoll /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  Does anyone remember how they were taught how to spell arithmetic? A red Indian thought he might eat tobacco in church. Of course it's now considered racist and is highly offensive but back in the 1980s that's how kids were taught to spell arithmetic.

Another one, that's offensive to me, is "don't assume anything because you make an ass out of u and me." I had an abusive 4th grade teacher would would cuss AND hit kids for any little reason. It was his favorite saying.

To some Latino/Latina is offensive and the more appropriate term is Hispanic while to others Hispanic is offensive while Latino/Latina is correct. 

There are a lot of Yiddish words that are used today that people don't realize are, well, slurs. I'm blanking on the show or what network it was one (History, History 2, Science, or something like that) in which they went over the origins of certain words. Really interesting show.
I don't recall ever hearing that about arithmetic until now. One thing I do recall, again, from being in the south growing up, was that they had a preacher come in and tell Bible stories to us in elementary school. The way they got around it was by obtaining parental consent. Still, I felt *my* rights as a human being (albeit a minor) were being trampled upon. I hated going to those as most of the kids knew the stories and I did not because we didn't go to church. And it always seemed the preacher could tell I didn't know anything because he seemed to call on me to answer questions more often than the other kids.

Oh, and I don't like the little assume thing either. I didn't have something happen to me like it did to you around the word, but people make assumptions all the time without realizing it. If we weren't able to make small assumptions and presumptions, communication in everyday life would be much more difficult. I find it extremely insulting when someone simply calls you an "a$$" instead of taking time to politely and rationally explain why they disagree with you. I actually think that happened to me here on makeup talk recently. :( /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

But I did have a teacher who threw chairs at us. He had major issues! My worst teacher was the one who first tried to teach me about computers. She was the cheerleading coach too. She put me and my computer partner on a lemon then constantly made fun of us for being jinxed. One day, when they broke down, she made me and my partner stand back to back in the middle of the room the whole class hour. For someone like me, that was mortifying. I've never forgiven her. It took me forever to get over my prejudice against redheads (as she was one). It taught me to hate anyone involved in sports or cheerleading. And I never learned as much about computers as I should have because that was my first introduction to them.

 
Quote: Originally Posted by Heather Hicks /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 

Anyway, I used to think the exact opposite of how I think now. I used to be ultra PC. I still believe in respecting others, but at the same time I think you have to balance it with people not being overly sensitive. Words take a certain course through time. Personally, even though I was an English major and I love to write, the first time I ever heard jipped (sp?) being linked to Gypsies was on here. I wonder if it became ok to say as there is not a substantial Gypsie population in America (I don't know about Europe). Yes, I found out they still exist when I heard about a reality show on Gypsies. But, I'm guessing they didn't have enough strength in numbers to bring awareness to the word. Now think of the word in Huckleberry Finn (or is it Tom Sawyer?) which you can't even say when reading the book in the classroom. I actually remember being asked to read a passage out loud in school and I froze at the word. I don't recall if I decided to say N-word or just skip it entirely, but it was very uncomfortable. We have a much higher number of African Americans in this country and they fought (rightfully so) long and hard to get any rights. To get those rights they had to change public perceptions, which included effectively banning that word from being said by anyone who is not African American. The word has power in a way that 'jipped' does not. Jipped could be just as hurtful to a Gypsie, I suppose, but the country as a whole doesn't realize this. We don't have enough Gypsies to call attention to the word.

For these reasons, I would never want to say the banned African American word. I am aware of it. Everyone is aware of it. No white person who isn't a racist wants to say it. But, I simply look at jipped differently. Now, if an actual Gypsie asked me not to say it, I would refrain, but I am not going to remove it from my lexicon in general. Nor would I be likely to refrain from saying it in front of someone who has no Gypsie ties. That's just the way I think about it. Not that I am likely to use the word on here again. I'd probably be more likely to say 'cheated' anyway. But if it slips out, I won't feel ashamed of myself for using something that is accepted as a good word by probably 99.9% of the American population. If the Gypsies raise awareness of the word, however, I would be willing to change both my opinion and my behavior. They could ban the word, but they are the only ones who I believe have the right to do so.

Part of why there aren't many gypsies calling attention to the word is because they have long been victims of ethnic cleansing.  They were targeted during the Holocaust, forced sterilization in Czechoslovakia in the 1970's to the 1990's, forced migration in France in 2010, and Italy burning Gypsy camps in 2009 are a couple more recent issues.  That and Roma people tend to not be well off and not able to represent themselves online.  I know we tend to not be aware of these issues in the US but once we are made aware we should keep that in mind and try to not use language we now know is hurtful.

 
Quote: Originally Posted by Heather Hicks /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  Ok. I have never heard Romani with an 'i' at the end before. I will have to read the article and see if it can help me learn some more.

Thank you!
the Roma/Rroma/Romani people are not the same as the Romans....................

It's weird you've never heard of it considering many of us have mentioned it several times in the proceeding thread of discussion including my reply to you?

 
I am very careful how I use my words, especially because my husband at times is not because in his particular culture certain labels are seen as acceptable and I try very hard to show my step daughter a different example and explain to her the power of words and how they can deeply hurt others. Since she was not born in this country she is still learning what can be considered a hurtful comment and I take every opportunity to explain these things to her. personally, I think that if a word offends or hurts just one person and I am made aware of it then that word must and will vanish from my vocabulary. What you say matters and what you do matters,especially for those of us who are parents. My opinion, but I think Meaganola gracefully and politely pointed out something that hurt her and even if such words do not bother another human being in the entire world, I know it bothers her and that is justification enough not to use it. Why would we knowingly inflict pain on even one person? if someone says something because they are unaware and are subsequently educated regarding the origin and hurtful nature of a word and continues to use the word, then the hurtfulness is intentional. just my thoughts.

 
Thank you for helping the next generation, @lorizav!  My mom had a horrible time with my brother and me not because of us but because of her parents:  My grandparents free and easy with the racial epithets and didn't give them a second thought because that was just how things were when they were growing up.  Then my mom decided that she was *not* going to have her children using that language or having that mindset, and she told her parents that if they ever used certain words again, they would never see us again.  Their thoughts and attitudes may not have changed, but their language did, at least around us, and my mother ended up with two kids who thought that the word "colored" belonged only in front of the word "pencils."  Success!

I was also just reminded that when I was in my 20s, I had to eradicate a word I was raised with:  Eskimo.  I have a very good friend who is Inuit, Yupik, and Inupiat (between her maternal and paternal sides of the family, she has every native Alaskan tribe accounted for), and she had to explain to a bunch of us that it is a very offensive word to her because we had *no clue*.  According to one theory on how the word came to be (her family's accepted version), some explorers asked a tribe what the name of the other tribe was.  The problem:  The tribes were enemies.  So imagine, if you will, someone coming along and asking your worst enemy what your name was, and then you would be recorded forever in history under the name "Boyfriend-Stealing witch."  In this case (at least according to how Elaine -- and a lot of native Alaskans -- were taught), the word/phrase provided meant "eater of raw meat," and it was a *huge* insult to the tribe in question, so now most natives are referred to generically as Inuit even though that's the name of a specific tribe since their languages are apparently from the same root.  [it gets complicated and weird, though, because the Yupik are not Inuit, unless you're in Canada or Greenland, because Inuit is the accepted generic term in those countries, and now my brain is melting trying to figure out how to explain First Nations vs Inuit vs Metis (please pretend there's an accent over the e), so I'm going to have to call it a night and go to bed now.]

(And that assume quote is from Oscar WIlde.  He was a very witchy, snarky person.  I always interpret his quotes as being said with a sneer regardless of what the quote actually is.)  

@Kyuu I'm not sure I've ever encountered the double R spelling before!  Interesting.  

@saycrackagain Speaking of spelling:  Yeah, I'm kind of stunned at the fact that some people think that a mere spelling change is supposed to make it better.  To me, it reinforces it as well.  And I don't think it was changed to distance anything.  I think the spelling change was accepted because of a supposed quote from Thomas Jefferson:

Quote:  "I have nothing but contempt for anyone who can spell a word only one way."
Americans tend to celebrate new ways to spell words.  Same word, same pronunciation, same meaning, same history, different spelling.  I don't know where the change happened, but I can easily see a scenario where a newspaper ran out of gs and ys, or they were transcribing something someone said out loud, but they didn't know how to spell the word so they used an alternate spelling because, hey, weird exotic people!  Weird exotic word!  Spelling isn't going to matter!  And *boom* new accepted spelling.

 
@saycrackagain Speaking of spelling:  Yeah, I'm kind of stunned at the fact that some people think that a mere spelling change is supposed to make it better.  To me, it reinforces it as well.  And I don't think it was changed to distance anything.
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Well I mean it's not even that they changed the spelling but that doesn't mean the connotation was lost, although I would agree with you there even if that were the case. It's that they seem to have purposely changed the spelling to "gyp" TO keep the connotation! (Since Egypt is spelled the same way.)
 
Quote: Originally Posted by flynt /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Part of why there aren't many gypsies calling attention to the word is because they have long been victims of ethnic cleansing.  They were targeted during the Holocaust, forced sterilization in Czechoslovakia in the 1970's to the 1990's, forced migration in France in 2010, and Italy burning Gypsy camps in 2009 are a couple more recent issues.  That and Roma people tend to not be well off and not able to represent themselves online.  I know we tend to not be aware of these issues in the US but once we are made aware we should keep that in mind and try to not use language we now know is hurtful.
Yes, I was only speaking for the US. I don't follow the news. Not because I don't care, but because it is so depressing. My husband loves to watch the news. I was in the room tonight and had a small panic attack when I heard the debt ceiling issue was just a day away. I didn't know it was that close and it scares me to death.

 
Quote: Originally Posted by Kyuu /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  the Roma/Rroma/Romani people are not the same as the Romans....................

It's weird you've never heard of it considering many of us have mentioned it several times in the proceeding thread of discussion including my reply to you?
I meant I had never heard of it before now--as in these posts--and it didn't sink in that Romani was a proper term like African American, Hispanic American, etc. Please keep in mind that I have lived most of my life in the rural south. I don't mean to imply I am racist as I am not, but, I have also not been exposed to as many cultures as I would if I lived in a larger city or up north. I did live in Atlantic City all of 2012. Come to think of it, we did have something there called the Romani Grill, but I just assumed that was the Italian spelling for Roman or something like that. I guess it had a meaning I didn't know about, but it never occurred to me to look it up as I just went there to eat. The term just wasn't in my consciousness and even when it first came up on here I didn't get the significance of it, if that makes sense.

 
Quote: Originally Posted by meaganola /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
So how do you know that someone isn't in the group it offends?  How do you know that my ancestors didn't clearly lie and change their name when they came to the US because they did not want to carry the stigma of an Eastern European name, and then they spent so much time very carefully hiding their history to avoid persecution here in the good old US of A that we have no idea where our family actually came from other than a vague "well, they came to the US through France, and before that, they were somewhere in Eastern Europe, and they were in Romania at some point, but we don't about their specific locations before the US because that information is 'lost', and the family that we were aware of that didn't come to the US was killed during the early part of the 20th century, so there's no one there to ask any more"?  Because yeah.  You don't.  Even when you know someone, you might not *know* their story.  It didn't occur to my aunt (on my mom's side of the family) that my dad's side was anything other than strictly British (because that history was "lost") until I asked her about a month ago if she had ever met my grandfather (in the context of "Uh, Mary, do you *really* think that my dad's ancestors landed in the US with this generic British surname?"  Answer:  Hell, no), and that's when she realized that, whoa, yeah, there's some Slavic blood going on over here, and my parents started dating in something like 1966, so it's clearly not something that is always glaringly obvious even when you meet someone live and in person and *have your sister marry into their family and have kids with that bloodline*.  *I* didn't piece things together until really recently when I started wondering why family history just kind of ended at a certain point in a certain part of my family tree.  

So that's my history -- that I never intended to share because I didn't really think it would be necessary -- behind why I'm personally offended by this particular word.  And on the other side of the family (the aforementioned aunt's side), we have Irish Travellers, who have a very similar thing going on.  You have *no idea* who you're talking to on the internet or whether they might say, "Hey, can we not use this word because I can feel a literal stab at my heart every time you use it because it comes from a derogatory reference to my ancestors who were killed just because of their ethnic identity because everyone considered them to be subhuman con men and crooks?" -- or if they might just say, "Hey, can we not use this word because it's a hurtful negative word?" and skip having to defend why they are upset.

(Also, do you know where the word "cracker" comes from?  It's from the slave drivers cracking whips.  It doesn't really have the same powerfully negative connotations as pretty much every other racial epithet I can think of.)  

And on the topic of raising awareness:  Uh, what exactly do you expect?  Here's a starting point:  Hey, let's not use this word because this is where it comes from.  It's a tiny thing, but it's apparently my thing this weekend.

I agree that a word should not be used towards someone if they explicitly say that it is offensive to them. At that point, you are purposely trying to hurt the person if you continue to say it. With that being said, I absolutely disagree with your statement that cracker does not have the same powerfully negative connotations as other racial epithets. I think that it implies horrible things about the person it is being used towards (oppressive, cruel, and makes the person almost like an object by implying that they are not a human but rather simply the cracker of the whip). I absolutely think that racial slurs are wrong towards all races but I'm honestly sick of it being okay or less wrong to make slurs towards white people.

 

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