Words having negative culture connotations?

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Heather Hicks linked to this thread in the Sephora codes and discussion thread, so I was expecting this was going to be about Kat Von D's Celebutard controversy, but this is a very interesting discussion nonetheless.

I guess my own thoughts about this is that claiming no ill-intent when using derogatory words can really only fly up until you've been informed that they're derogatory.  After that, calling someone, say, a "Kike" and then being like "Well, I'm just not a pc kind of person and I have no ill-intent when I use that word" should rightly not go over well.

Same with "Gypped" or "jipped."  You having no ill-intent because you were ignorant that these are derogatory ethnic slurs is fine and understandable, but once you're no longer ignorant to the fact that these are derogatory ethic slurs, it can appear mean-spirited and malicious to carry on using them. Because now you're no longer ignorant, you have no excuse, your 'intent' is suspect.  It seems to me there is no noble reason that an informed person should carry on with being as careless as an ignorant person.

 
Yeah, sort of a weird place to link us to- "ALL 'PC' TALK SHOULD BE RELEGATED TO ONE THREAD! IT HAS NO PLACE ANYWHERE ELSE!" is the feeling I'm getting, especially after reading some of the other posts... yikes...

 
Yeah, sort of a weird place to link us to- "ALL 'PC' TALK SHOULD BE RELEGATED TO ONE THREAD! IT HAS NO PLACE ANYWHERE ELSE!" is the feeling I'm getting, especially after reading some of the other posts... yikes...
Click to expand...
Agreed. It seems a bit hard to have a conversation about it when you're basically pushed off into this thread (where conversation kinda dies quickly). Oh well. :( /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />
 
So I know I am a bit late to that thread but I have a question and want to see if I see this completely wrong. I also hope this is the right thread for it.

First, a bit of background: I am German (grew up there, german citizen living in the US) and live in the US since 6 1/2 years. Many people still hear my accent and a lot of them assume that I am Russian (we sound nothing alike) and I even heard Australian before (what?). I  don't even care about that. What I always think is funny is the reaction of some poeple when I tell them I am from Germany. Older people sometimes look at me weird because they have lived the shitty history of my country and I fully understand that. What I do not find funny is Nazi jokes or when someone asks about the Autobahn (as if there is only one) and they ask how I like Schwarzenegger and if I love Hesselhoff's (however you spell that)  music. I hear these comments a lot. I usually do not say anything though and I rarely get offended.

To the actual question: What also confuses me is when someone replies: "Oh I am German too" where I get excited and ask where they grew up. Turns out, most people that say that have never set foot in Germany and most of them are third generation immigrants. Don't get me wrong, i do not find it offensive but to me being a first generation Immigrant it is very different if you are from German/Irish/ Other country heritage or actual citizen of that country or born in that country. I actually love that people are embracing their heritage as i love learning about different cultures.

So a lot of people are excited to exclaim their heritage, which is wonderful. What I find offensive is when I hear generalization talks about immigrants and how they suck for the US. I am an immigrant and working hard for a living. I came quite far in the years I have lived here. When I tell people that the answer is :"But you are different?" How am I different when people just say 'immigrants'?

Here is another thing I hate: the word reverse racism. To me racism is racism and please educate me if I am wrong as English is not my first language. My husband is part black, part white part cherokee. I had african American ladies yell at me that white women are taking their good men. I am getting a lot of dirty looks when we are going out together as is he. We ignore it. My oppinion is that any culture/race you express hate agains is racism and it is wrong if known or unknown.

I am sorry about this long post but those were my thoughts about this thread, which I find very enlightening by the way.

 
Quote: Originally Posted by Heather Hicks /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  Btw, I looked at the onion post, and sadly, I don't understand most of them. At least, not how the place is linked to the term. And for some, Des Moines especially, I really don't get the reference. Maybe that also partly explains my reaction. I tend to be lost in my own world most of the time. 
The Onion is a satirical site. Not even sure the person who originally linked to it realized it was satire?? There are literally no teams with those names except the Red Skins. The article's point is to show that Red Skins is a name as bad as the fictional ones listed. 

 
Quote: Originally Posted by kawaiimeows /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Yes, I am aware that the onion is satire. It still had a thought provoking message.
Satire comedy, in the form it takes today, exists to highlight and humorize the absurdity of something by juxtaposing it with something that you would rather obviously find absurd (or offensive). Obviously @kawaiimeows knows it's satire and absurdist, but the point The Onion was trying to make is basically anyone can see how stupid the rest of those are to provoke the question why we shouldn't find the Redskins offensive.

Here's another example: http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/10/10/new_york_jews_san_francisco_chinamen_cleveland_indians_ncai_poster_is_old.html

mascot_hats.jpg.CROP.promovar-mediumlarge.jpg
 

Satire is not "Just" satire. Satire is irony with humor with absurdism trying to make a point. 

(@kawaiimeows gurl, i got yo flower XD)

 
Quote: Originally Posted by mindcaviar /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  The Onion is a satirical site. Not even sure the person who originally linked to it realized it was satire?? There are literally no teams with those names except the Red Skins. The article's point is to show that Red Skins is a name as bad as the fictional ones listed. 
Oh I know of the Onion. I just didn't get those particular jokes is what I was saying. I didn't recognize all the racial slurs they were referencing.

 
So I know I am a bit late to that thread but I have a question and want to see if I see this completely wrong. I also hope this is the right thread for it. First, a bit of background: I am German (grew up there, german citizen living in the US) and live in the US since 6 1/2 years. Many people still hear my accent and a lot of them assume that I am Russian (we sound nothing alike) and I even heard Australian before (what?). I  don't even care about that. What I always think is funny is the reaction of some poeple when I tell them I am from Germany. Older people sometimes look at me weird because they have lived the shitty history of my country and I fully understand that. What I do not find funny is Nazi jokes or when someone asks about the Autobahn (as if there is only one) and they ask how I like Schwarzenegger and if I love Hesselhoff's (however you spell that)  music. I hear these comments a lot. I usually do not say anything though and I rarely get offended. To the actual question: What also confuses me is when someone replies: "Oh I am German too" where I get excited and ask where they grew up. Turns out, most people that say that have never set foot in Germany and most of them are third generation immigrants. Don't get me wrong, i do not find it offensive but to me being a first generation Immigrant it is very different if you are from German/Irish/ Other country heritage or actual citizen of that country or born in that country. I actually love that people are embracing their heritage as i love learning about different cultures. So a lot of people are excited to exclaim their heritage, which is wonderful. What I find offensive is when I hear generalization talks about immigrants and how they suck for the US. I am an immigrant and working hard for a living. I came quite far in the years I have lived here. When I tell people that the answer is :"But you are different?" How am I different when people just say 'immigrants'? Here is another thing I hate: the word reverse racism. To me racism is racism and please educate me if I am wrong as English is not my first language. My husband is part black, part white part cherokee. I had african American ladies yell at me that white women are taking their good men. I am getting a lot of dirty looks when we are going out together as is he. We ignore it. My oppinion is that any culture/race you express hate agains is racism and it is wrong if known or unknown. I am sorry about this long post but those were my thoughts about this thread, which I find very enlightening by the way.
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Sorry to quote the entire post (don't kill me). I get this, and I'm 1st generation American. Almost whenever anyone finds out that my family's German, it's a comment about Nazis, or "Jews," or something less offensive like, yes, "the Autobahn." I'm slightly offended by the Nazi crap, but it's more sad than anything. Why Hitler? Why not Beethoven? Einstein? They're equally well known in America (another sad statement). Sigh. Anyway, I'm glad you said that. I've wanted to vent about this! On topic, I grew up in the DC area and it never occurred to me until recently. My boyfriend's family is native American, and I asked his mom if she found the team name to be offensive. She said she never really thought about it either, but I feel like if I had to ask, it might be a bad sign.
 
Quote: Originally Posted by Jaykat /img/forum/go_quote.gif


Sorry to quote the entire post (don't kill me).

I get this, and I'm 1st generation American. Almost whenever anyone finds out that my family's German, it's a comment about Nazis, or "Jews," or something less offensive like, yes, "the Autobahn." I'm slightly offended by the Nazi crap, but it's more sad than anything. Why Hitler? Why not Beethoven? Einstein? They're equally well known in America (another sad statement). Sigh.

Anyway, I'm glad you said that. I've wanted to vent about this!

On topic, I grew up in the DC area and it never occurred to me until recently. My boyfriend's family is native American, and I asked his mom if she found the team name to be offensive. She said she never really thought about it either, but I feel like if I had to ask, it might be a bad sign.

I've noticed that a lot of people will use stereotypical comments or the few shreds of knowledge they have about a country/culture/etc. as conversation starters, not quite realising that the person they're talking to has heard it thousands of times already and it's just not nearly as cute or funny or knowledgeable as they think they're being. When people find out my family is Chinese/German/French, they don't even know where to start... The Chinese stuff that they come up with usually isn't even actually Chinese, like ninjas and geisha. And if the person is Chinese, they'll comment on how I look like a "foreign child" and they'll be Ã¼ber impressed that I speak Mandarin. And when I'm traveling and people find out I'm from Texas, they usually immediately assume that I'm some cowgirl who lives on a ranch and rides a horse everywhere. The most common question Europeans have asked me is "oooh, so do you own a gun?" I feel like I should just have an "about me" list typed up so I can save my breath and just hand it to people and they can read all the answers to the questions I know they're gonna ask.

 
According to my family, my 1/4 Cherokee great-grandmother, was "Indian". I don't think she was even aware of the term "Native American" when she was alive. The word "Jew" refers to a religion and an ethnicity. I'm not offended when someone calls me a "Catholic" and my Mexican husband isn't offended when someone calls him "Hispanic". So I don't quite get why "Jew" is considered offensive. What else do you call a Jewish person when referring to their religion/ethnicity? Last weekend, I bought some cupcakes called "Irish Car Bomb" (Guiness in the batter and Irish Cream in the frosting). I suppose I should have been offended, due to my Irish ancestry, but I didn't think anything of it. I'm also not offended by the popular bar drink called a "Black and Tan". Because that's what it is. It's black and it's tan. The name is accurately descriptive and most people in the part of the country where I live have no idea that there could be another meaning. I'm an American Catholic of mostly German plus Irish, English, Cherokee, Choctaw, French, and Dutch ancestry.

 
@feemia "Jew" is often used by anti-semites in a pejorative manner, in addition to "Jew" having a history of being used as a verb in a negative manner (see earlier in this thread). While it may literally mean a person of Jewish ancestry, or a member of the Jewish faith, I think it's history makes it an inappropriate word.

I'm not Jewish, so maybe there are Jewish people out there who are ok with the use of the word, but I personally wouldn't use it.

 
@norther that exactly! Most people that d it seem very uneducated. Don't get me wrong, I don't know everything about a lot of cultures but I tend to ask questions about things I am curious about. It's in the way you word them. Instead of asking "so does everyone where you live eat all sauerkraut?" I would rather ask "So, what is one of the more common dishes?".

Here is another thing that came to my mind: My husband is black. He hates it if I say he is African American. He doesn't care if others use the term, he just says it doesn't make sense to him. He was born in the US to a white German woman and a black man so he is mixed. He just doesn't think that he has to do that much with Africa more than his far back ancestry. His reasoning: He has never been there and can't track back the ancestor that was brought over. He says we all come from Africa anyway and if he can call me white I should be able to just call him black. He says I am not German American when someone asks me wat race I am and he is as American as every other citizen.  I find that very interesting and hope that didn't offend anyone.

Here is the funny thing: He has a German accent and is really tall. When a lot of people see and hear him, they will ask me "what is he?" because they can't figure out the accent. I always reply "human, like me".

 
Quote:Originally Posted by Sunflowercake /img/forum/go_quote.gif



Here is another thing that came to my mind: My husband is black. He hates it if I say he is African American. He doesn't care if others use the term, he just says it doesn't make sense to him. He was born in the US to a white German woman and a black man so he is mixed. He just doesn't think that he has to do that much with Africa more than his far back ancestry. His reasoning: He has never been there and can't track back the ancestor that was brought over. He says we all come from Africa anyway and if he can call me white I should be able to just call him black. He says I am not German American when someone asks me wat race I am and he is as American as every other citizen.  I find that very interesting and hope that didn't offend anyone.




The term "African-American" implies that dark-skinned people of African descent in America are a different race from those who live in other countries. We were discussing this at work a couple of months ago. (Most of the people I work with are social workers or nurses, so no subject is off-limits) One of my European co-workers said that where she's from black people check "Black African" or "Black Caribbean" when filling out forms that require them to choose a race, but definitely not "African American".
 
@Sunflowercake 

Agreed, it should be taught that blanket statements are rarely applicable and can be very frustrating or annoying to hear. I definitely understand where your husband is coming from - I view myself as American as well, I was born and raised here in Texas. I often get the "where are you from, no but where are you REALLY from?!" question and I always repeatedly answer Texas until they give up. It's the 21st freaking century, you can travel halfway across the world in less than a day, I find it crazy that some people will try to insinuate that I can't "really" be from Texas because I'm of Asian descent

I love your reply to people's questions about your husband! Being a decent human being is ALL that should matter at the end of the day. I personally don't care whether a person is black, white, purple, who they love, what they believe in, as long as they're a compassionate and (semi-)reasonable human, I'll get along fine with them.

 
@feemia I get that and appreciate the explanation, but I also understand why my husband is avoiding to even put that differenciation on there because in the end, aren't we all supposed to be the same? But then again, I understand if someone prefers to be called African-American and others who I know check other because they do not identify themselves with any of them.

@norther very well said, I agree 100%. In the end we are all human and there are scentists who claim that looking at the genes all over the world, we all are from 5 women in Africa, so who cares. While I see myself as unique and believe every person is unique I believe it is not just our heritage or color of skin that should make us unique but other qualities we have. That's just my thoughts. Now if someone asks me, I will gladly tell them I am German since I am not a US Citizen. 

 
Quote: Originally Posted by Sunflowercake /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  So I know I am a bit late to that thread but I have a question and want to see if I see this completely wrong. I also hope this is the right thread for it.

First, a bit of background: I am German (grew up there, german citizen living in the US) and live in the US since 6 1/2 years. Many people still hear my accent and a lot of them assume that I am Russian (we sound nothing alike) and I even heard Australian before (what?). I  don't even care about that. What I always think is funny is the reaction of some poeple when I tell them I am from Germany. Older people sometimes look at me weird because they have lived the shitty history of my country and I fully understand that. What I do not find funny is Nazi jokes or when someone asks about the Autobahn (as if there is only one) and they ask how I like Schwarzenegger and if I love Hesselhoff's (however you spell that)  music. I hear these comments a lot. I usually do not say anything though and I rarely get offended.

To the actual question: What also confuses me is when someone replies: "Oh I am German too" where I get excited and ask where they grew up. Turns out, most people that say that have never set foot in Germany and most of them are third generation immigrants. Don't get me wrong, i do not find it offensive but to me being a first generation Immigrant it is very different if you are from German/Irish/ Other country heritage or actual citizen of that country or born in that country. I actually love that people are embracing their heritage as i love learning about different cultures.

So a lot of people are excited to exclaim their heritage, which is wonderful. What I find offensive is when I hear generalization talks about immigrants and how they suck for the US. I am an immigrant and working hard for a living. I came quite far in the years I have lived here. When I tell people that the answer is :"But you are different?" How am I different when people just say 'immigrants'?

Here is another thing I hate: the word reverse racism. To me racism is racism and please educate me if I am wrong as English is not my first language. My husband is part black, part white part cherokee. I had african American ladies yell at me that white women are taking their good men. I am getting a lot of dirty looks when we are going out together as is he. We ignore it. My oppinion is that any culture/race you express hate agains is racism and it is wrong if known or unknown.

I am sorry about this long post but those were my thoughts about this thread, which I find very enlightening by the way.
So sorry that you  have had all of these negative experiences. Sometimes people are simply ignorant or just choose to be mean spirited. The US was built by immigrants that's why I don't understand the racism. Seems like some people are misguided and think some immigrants from some countries are better than others. I agree racism is racism I don't know why its so hard for some people to let that go, in the end we are all just humans.

 
Quote: Originally Posted by Jaykat /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  Quote: Originally Posted by Sunflowercake /img/forum/go_quote.gif

So I know I am a bit late to that thread but I have a question and want to see if I see this completely wrong. I also hope this is the right thread for it.
First, a bit of background: I am German (grew up there, german citizen living in the US) and live in the US since 6 1/2 years. Many people still hear my accent and a lot of them assume that I am Russian (we sound nothing alike) and I even heard Australian before (what?). I  don't even care about that. What I always think is funny is the reaction of some poeple when I tell them I am from Germany. Older people sometimes look at me weird because they have lived the shitty history of my country and I fully understand that. What I do not find funny is Nazi jokes or when someone asks about the Autobahn (as if there is only one) and they ask how I like Schwarzenegger and if I love Hesselhoff's (however you spell that)  music. I hear these comments a lot. I usually do not say anything though and I rarely get offended.
To the actual question: What also confuses me is when someone replies: "Oh I am German too" where I get excited and ask where they grew up. Turns out, most people that say that have never set foot in Germany and most of them are third generation immigrants. Don't get me wrong, i do not find it offensive but to me being a first generation Immigrant it is very different if you are from German/Irish/ Other country heritage or actual citizen of that country or born in that country. I actually love that people are embracing their heritage as i love learning about different cultures.
So a lot of people are excited to exclaim their heritage, which is wonderful. What I find offensive is when I hear generalization talks about immigrants and how they suck for the US. I am an immigrant and working hard for a living. I came quite far in the years I have lived here. When I tell people that the answer is :"But you are different?" How am I different when people just say 'immigrants'?

Here is another thing I hate: the word reverse racism. To me racism is racism and please educate me if I am wrong as English is not my first language. My husband is part black, part white part cherokee. I had african American ladies yell at me that white women are taking their good men. I am getting a lot of dirty looks when we are going out together as is he. We ignore it. My oppinion is that any culture/race you express hate agains is racism and it is wrong if known or unknown.

I am sorry about this long post but those were my thoughts about this thread, which I find very enlightening by the way.

Sorry to quote the entire post (don't kill me).

I get this, and I'm 1st generation American. Almost whenever anyone finds out that my family's German, it's a comment about Nazis, or "Jews," or something less offensive like, yes, "the Autobahn." I'm slightly offended by the Nazi crap, but it's more sad than anything. Why Hitler? Why not Beethoven? Einstein? They're equally well known in America (another sad statement). Sigh.

Anyway, I'm glad you said that. I've wanted to vent about this!

On topic, I grew up in the DC area and it never occurred to me until recently. My boyfriend's family is native American, and I asked his mom if she found the team name to be offensive. She said she never really thought about it either, but I feel like if I had to ask, it might be a bad sign. This bothers me so much that people can just make insensitive comments and assume its ok. Why not put the shoe on the other foot? and why not bring out the positive instead of focusing on the negative.

 
Quote: Originally Posted by Sunflowercake /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  @norther that exactly! Most people that d it seem very uneducated. Don't get me wrong, I don't know everything about a lot of cultures but I tend to ask questions about things I am curious about. It's in the way you word them. Instead of asking "so does everyone where you live eat all sauerkraut?" I would rather ask "So, what is one of the more common dishes?".

Here is another thing that came to my mind: My husband is black. He hates it if I say he is African American. He doesn't care if others use the term, he just says it doesn't make sense to him. He was born in the US to a white German woman and a black man so he is mixed. He just doesn't think that he has to do that much with Africa more than his far back ancestry. His reasoning: He has never been there and can't track back the ancestor that was brought over. He says we all come from Africa anyway and if he can call me white I should be able to just call him black. He says I am not German American when someone asks me wat race I am and he is as American as every other citizen.  I find that very interesting and hope that didn't offend anyone.

Here is the funny thing: He has a German accent and is really tall. When a lot of people see and hear him, they will ask me "what is he?" because they can't figure out the accent. I always reply "human, like me".
Love that answer!

 
This is the sort of topic that I find incredibly interesting. I have to admit that I had no idea about the origins of the word jipped. I really appreciate the history lesson behind it. I often wonder where much of our modern language has come from. I have always understood that the term Jew is offensive to some people, but I have also known many people who used it with the belief that it was just a term and not something that was negative toward someone else and their culture. I am often amazed at statements people make without any real thought or understanding of what it means.

 

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